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Catholic Taliban?

DHK

<b>Moderator</b>
If this were genuine and intellectually honest, we would be actively "recruiting" Catholics to join this board and the disussion.
This board has no reason to recruit Catholics, J.W.'s, Mormons, Hindus or any other cult or false religion. You don't make any sense.
Furthermore, your comment is quite out of order for you have only been here since Jan. 2010 and are quite unaware of the history that board has had with Catholics.
 

DHK

<b>Moderator</b>
Have you ever heard of a Concordat?
There was no Concordat, and I think you know that.
There was corruption. It was the Catholic Bishops acting like Taliban twisting the arm of the President by any means possible to get what they want. They do not act like Christians. They act just like the Afghan Taliban.

Do what I say or else!!!!
 

targus

New Member
A Presbyterian doesn't join a Baptist Church because he agrees with Baptist doctrine or wants to change Baptist doctrine. He joins a Presbyterian church because he is a Presbyterian and agrees with Presbyterian doctrine. What is difficult about that concept.

The people in our church take seriously the doctrine that our church holds to. If they didn't, they wouldn't join. They would go somewhere else; somewhere where doctrine is not so meaningful--maybe one of your churches. We put emphasis on doctrine. It is important. And there is a certain part of that doctrine that must be agreed to, and a certain part of that doctrine in which there is a degree of soul liberty.

All must agree with the statement of faith.
There is also a covenant (a promise to God) that one must keep.

If they don't agree with these things before coming to the pastor and deacons for membership they cannot join the church. Not everyone that sits in the pew is a member. Only the RCC works that way. We know who our members are.

For the record, covenants are not that common. Some Baptist churches have them, many don't. You may want to do some research on it. Try and find some typical covenants of Baptist Churches.

What is the process for determining that every member will keep their oath to your church with perfection?

How do you go about finding these perfect people?

And doesn't Scripture have something to say about oaths?

Like I said - sounds a bit cultish to me.
 

Dr. Walter

New Member
Have you ever heard of a Concordat?

Like the Concordat that the Pope Pius XI signed with Hitler, Mussolini and Franco? A concordat with Nazism, Facism and Communism!!

Although the concordat's with Mussolini and Franco have been rescinded, the concordat with Hitler has never been rescinded.

What is a concordat?

A concordat is a pact between the Vatican and a nation-state whereby the Vatican gains certain political and financial benefits in return for support of a policy or arm of the national government. Such a concordat in a nation with numerous Catholics is also helpful in getting their allegiance or in curbing opposition to the government.” — Prof. John M. Swomley, St. Paul School of Theology, Kansas City, Missouri

Concordat: An Agreement made between a pope and a very Christian king, through which both of them dispose of things they never had any right to touch in the first place.” — Paul-Henri Thiry d’Holbach, Portable Theology, 1768

“[When drawing up concordats] the aims of the Church are always the same: money, influence on education and marriage laws. However, not everywhere can the maximal demands be achieved.” — Wolfgang Huber

“…It were to be desired that the Church should never need concordats, and should always find in civil rulers devoted children….” — “Concordats”, Catholic Encyclopaedia, 1913.

Each concordat marks a state’s renunciation of its own powers and its assumption of the obligation to contribute to those of the Catholic Church. In exchange for these gifts, authoritarian governments buy from the church hierarchy a kind of legitimacy and support for their power, as being in harmony with the commands of God. In some cases they gain influence in the appointment of senior Churchmen. A democratic system does not need this legitimacy [...]. Democracy has been the number one enemy of the Church for two centuries — with a short break, during which it was aggressively atheistic totalitarianism [communism] — and there is no reason to believe that it will change. On the other hand, to grant the Church any privileges violates the foundations of democracy, even if the facade is retained.” — Confidential note (therefore anonymous) for Poland’s President Aleksander Kwaśniewski before the ratification of the Polish concordat revealed by MP Ryszard Zając on 12 September 1996 in the Sejm
 

Alive in Christ

New Member
If this were genuine and intellectually honest, we would be actively "recruiting" Catholics to join this board and the disussion.

I know. Its weirdly bizzare.

I have felt for years that Catholics should be as free as anyone else to post here, in this "other denominations" section.

With all due respect to the ones in charge here, I'll say it again...it makes us appear to be scared of Catholics.


Why is that??? We have ...nothing...to...fear... regarding the Catholics. We have the scriptures, the truth, and the ministry of the Holy Spirit on our side.

Gosh, we have Pentecostals, 7th day Adventists, Orthodox, Episcopalians, Methodists, and who knows who else posting freely in this "other denoms" board...yet we have no opportunity to discuss with Catholics.

???????????????

I just dont get it.
 
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DHK

<b>Moderator</b>
I know. Its weirdly bizzare.

I have felt for years that Catholics should be as free as anyone else to post here, in this "other denominations" section.

With all due respect to the ones in charge here, I'll say it again...it makes us
appear to be cowardly.

Why is that??? We have ...nothing...to...fear... regarding the Catholics. We have the scriptures, the truth, and the ministry of the Holy Spirit on our side.

Gosh, we have Pentecostals, 7th day Adventists, Orthodox, Episcopalians, Methodists, and who knows who else posting freely in this "other denoms" board...yet we have no opportunity to discuss with Catholics.

???????????????

I just dont get it.
What don't you get?
It is a private board where the owner and its administration make the rules about who they want to invite and who they want to exclude. It is a private board. Please understand that. That may not appeal to your sense of what you may think is "fair." But it is not your board.

The board does not invite Hindus, Muslims, most cults, etc.
IMO, the RCC does not fall under the realm of Biblical Christianity.
Some put it under the umbrella of cults; others put it under the umbrella of "other world religions."
But this section is "Other Christian Denominations," which the RCC is not. You can disagree with me if you wish. I was a former Catholic and never heard the gospel presented in more than 20 years. That doesn't vouch for that organizations "Christianity." It tells me it is a religion, but not Christian.

However that is my opinion, not the board's. It is the board's position not to invite Catholics just like they don't invite members of other world religions and other cults. And with that the case is closed. You don't need to know the reasons behind the owners decisions. You just need to know that it is his board and he can set whatever rules he wishes.
 

Alive in Christ

New Member
DHK...

It is a private board where the owner and its administration make the rules about who they want to invite and who they want to exclude. It is a private board. Please understand that. That may not appeal to your sense of what you may think is "fair." But it is not your board.

I have always understood that. None of that adresses my point, though'

The board does not invite Hindus, Muslims, most cults, etc.
IMO, the RCC does not fall under the realm of Biblical Christianity.
Some put it under the umbrella of cults; others put it under the umbrella of "other world religions."

I agree completely with all of that.


But this section is "Other Christian Denominations," which the RCC is not. You can disagree with me if you wish. I was a former Catholic and never heard the gospel presented in more than 20 years.

I too was a former Catholic, and I too never once heard the true saving gospel from Catholicism.

That doesn't vouch for that organizations "Christianity." It tells me it is a religion, but not Christian.

I agree.

But my point is that to exclude them from interacting with us here deprives us from sharing the truth with them. In other words...evangelism

In Acts 17 Paul did not flee from the false worshippers. Rather, he interacted with them and shared the truth with them.

I would think that a Baptist forum would be very willing to share the truth with any and all, rather then shun these dear ones who need to hear and accept the truth.

However that is my opinion, not the board's. It is the board's position not to invite Catholics just like they don't invite members of other world religions and other cults. And with that the case is closed. You don't need to know the reasons behind the owners decisions. You just need to know that it is his board and he can set whatever rules he wishes.

As I said before...I understand that and have ever since coming here. I have no intention of raising a ruckus or causing problems. I enjoy this site very much.

I, as a Baptist, just dont understand a Baptist discussion board not wanting to share truth (evangelize) with people who come here from other religions.

It seems very odd, and quite contradictory to the great commission.
 
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targus

New Member
It was the Catholic Bishops acting like Taliban twisting the arm of the President by any means possible to get what they want. They do not act like Christians. They act just like the Afghan Taliban.

Do what I say or else!!!!

Another example of a Taliban church would be one that requires an oath to abide by legalistic rules before allowing membership.

What is the penalty for violating the oath?

One can only wonder.

It must be very harsh since no one ever has or ever will violate it - according to DHK.
 

DHK

<b>Moderator</b>
As I said before...I understand that and have ever since coming here. I have no intention of raising a ruckus or causing problems. I enjoy this site very much.

I, as a Baptist, just dont understand a Baptist discussion board not wanting to share truth (evangelize) with people who come here from other religions.

It seems very odd, and quite contradictory to the great commission.
You just stated: it is a Baptist discussion board, as you have always understood it to be.
So why do you find it odd and contradictory that the owner did not make the board for the purpose of carrying out the Great Commission. If you take issue with that you should contact him. Again it is a private board.

Even in a church we do not invite the unsaved to be members of our churches. That is an example.
 

DHK

<b>Moderator</b>
Another example of a Taliban church would be one that requires an oath to abide by legalistic rules before allowing membership.

What is the penalty for violating the oath?

One can only wonder.

It must be very harsh since no one ever has or ever will violate it - according to DHK.
When can only wonder why the OP is ignored.
A secular news article compared the Catholic Bishops in the Philippines as Catholic Taliban. That was the Press, not me. If the unsaved can see through the corruption of the RCC why are there so many believers here defending their actions.

Instead of deflecting the subject to other churches and other issues answer the question in the light of the OP.
Where in the Bible is it taught that intimidation, threats, and ultimatums are the Christian methods to get what one wants, and live out our lives? Show me from the Bible how these Bishops are justified in their actions, and why the Press are not justified in their use of "Catholic Taliban."
 

targus

New Member
When can only wonder why the OP is ignored.
A secular news article compared the Catholic Bishops in the Philippines as Catholic Taliban. That was the Press, not me. If the unsaved can see through the corruption of the RCC why are there so many believers here defending their actions.

Instead of deflecting the subject to other churches and other issues answer the question in the light of the OP.
Where in the Bible is it taught that intimidation, threats, and ultimatums are the Christian methods to get what one wants, and live out our lives? Show me from the Bible how these Bishops are justified in their actions, and why the Press are not justified in their use of "Catholic Taliban."

I am just trying to compare the approach of the RCC with the approach of your church since you are the one that posted the OP article.

You are able to say that the approach of the RCC to the problem of someone disrupting a service is wrong.

You are able to say that the approach to dealing with a church member openly and publicly defying the teachings of his church is wrong.

But you are unable or unwilling to tell us the correct way to deal with someone in such a situation - other than to tell us that it is not possible for such a thing to happen in your church because your members took an oath to your church and your members are perfect in keeping their oath.

It seriously causes me to question which church - the RCC or yours - is more like the Taliban and which church is more like a cult.
 

Thinkingstuff

Active Member
There was no Concordat, and I think you know that.
There was corruption. It was the Catholic Bishops acting like Taliban twisting the arm of the President by any means possible to get what they want. They do not act like Christians. They act just like the Afghan Taliban.

Do what I say or else!!!!

I seriously think the Vatican has a concordat with the Philippenes.
 

Thinkingstuff

Active Member
Like the Concordat that the Pope Pius XI signed with Hitler, Mussolini and Franco? A concordat with Nazism, Facism and Communism!!

Although the concordat's with Mussolini and Franco have been rescinded, the concordat with Hitler has never been rescinded.

What is a concordat?

A concordat is a pact between the Vatican and a nation-state whereby the Vatican gains certain political and financial benefits in return for support of a policy or arm of the national government. Such a concordat in a nation with numerous Catholics is also helpful in getting their allegiance or in curbing opposition to the government.” — Prof. John M. Swomley, St. Paul School of Theology, Kansas City, Missouri

Concordat: An Agreement made between a pope and a very Christian king, through which both of them dispose of things they never had any right to touch in the first place.” — Paul-Henri Thiry d’Holbach, Portable Theology, 1768

“[When drawing up concordats] the aims of the Church are always the same: money, influence on education and marriage laws. However, not everywhere can the maximal demands be achieved.” — Wolfgang Huber

“…It were to be desired that the Church should never need concordats, and should always find in civil rulers devoted children….” — “Concordats”, Catholic Encyclopaedia, 1913.

Each concordat marks a state’s renunciation of its own powers and its assumption of the obligation to contribute to those of the Catholic Church. In exchange for these gifts, authoritarian governments buy from the church hierarchy a kind of legitimacy and support for their power, as being in harmony with the commands of God. In some cases they gain influence in the appointment of senior Churchmen. A democratic system does not need this legitimacy [...]. Democracy has been the number one enemy of the Church for two centuries — with a short break, during which it was aggressively atheistic totalitarianism [communism] — and there is no reason to believe that it will change. On the other hand, to grant the Church any privileges violates the foundations of democracy, even if the facade is retained.” — Confidential note (therefore anonymous) for Poland’s President Aleksander Kwaśniewski before the ratification of the Polish concordat revealed by MP Ryszard Zając on 12 September 1996 in the Sejm

And your point is? The vatican, a nation state, makes agreements with nations no matter their political statements or political creeds for the treatment of its churches and believers with in that country. Is that really an issue?
 

Thinkingstuff

Active Member
I still fail to see DHK how your accusations in this instance are valid. They are nothing like the Taliban. As my earlier comments show.
 

Dr. Walter

New Member
I still fail to see DHK how your accusations in this instance are valid. They are nothing like the Taliban. As my earlier comments show.

Their history is drenched in the blood of the saints as a "NATION STATE" that ruled over other nations and excommunicated any king that would not do their bidding. No true church of Jesus Christ in the scriptures can be described or characterized as a "NATION STATE" as you fully admit Rome is.

The Taliban charge is nothing in comparison to the charge that history makes against Rome. The Taliban's are but inexperienced children in killing and persecuting in comparison to blood thirsty Rome! Heaven will rejoice when she is totally destroyed!
 

Dr. Walter

New Member
The HOLY Preisthood of the HOLY Catholic Church

Just a Few Bad Apples

Years ago the Catholic hierarchy would insist that clerical pedophilia involved only a few bad apples and was being blown completely out of proportion.

For the longest time John Paul scornfully denounced the media for “sensationalizing” the issue. He and his cardinals (Ratzinger included) directed more fire at news outlets for publicizing the crimes than at their own clergy for committing them.

Reports released by the US Conference of Catholic Bishops (one of the more honest organizations in the Catholic Church) documented the abuse committed in the United States by 4,392 priests against thousands of children between 1950 and 2002.



One of every ten priests ordained in 1970 was charged as a pedophile by 2002.



Another survey commissioned by the US bishops found that among 5,450 complaints of sexual abuse there were charges against at least sixteen bishops. So much for a few bad apples.

Still, even as reports were flooding in from Ireland and other countries, John Paul dismissed the pedophilic epidemic as “an American problem,” as if American priests were not members of his clergy, or as if this made it a matter of no great moment. John Paul went to his grave in 2005 still refusing to meet with victims and never voicing any apologies or regrets regarding sex crimes and cover-ups.

With Ratzinger’s accession to the papal throne as Benedict XVI, the cover-ups continued.

As recently as April 2010, at Easter Mass in St. Peter’s Square, dean of the college of cardinals Angelo Sodano, assured Benedict that the faithful were unimpressed “by the gossip of the moment.”

One would not know that “the gossip of the moment” included thousands of investigations, prosecutions, and accumulated charges extending back over decades.

During that same Easter weekend, Cardinal Norberto Rivera Carrera, archbishop of Mexico City, declared that the public uproar was an “overreaction” incited by the doings of “a few dishonest and criminal priests.”


A few? An overreaction? Of course, the picture now becomes clear: a few bad apples were inciting overreaction by engaging in the gossip of the moment.

The church seems determined to learn nothing from its transgressions, preoccupied as it is with avoiding lawsuits and bad publicity.





Really Not All that Serious

There are two ways we can think of child rape as being not a serious problem, and the Catholic hierarchy seems to have embraced both these positions.

First, pedophilia is not that serious if it involves only a few isolated and passing incidents.

Second, an even more creepy way of downplaying the problem: child molestation is not all that damaging or that important. At worst, it is regrettable and unfortunate; it might greatly upset the child, but it certainly is not significant enough to cause unnecessary scandal and ruin the career of an otherwise splendid padre.

It is remarkable how thoroughly indifferent the church bigwigs have been toward the abused children.


When one of the most persistent perpetrators, Rev. John Geoghan, was forced into retirement (not jail) after seventeen years and nearly 200 victims, Cardinal Law could still write him,

“On behalf of those you have served well, in my own name, I would like to thank you. I understand yours is a painful situation.”

It is evident that Law was more concerned about the “pain” endured by Geoghan than the misery he had inflicted upon minors. In 2001, a French bishop was convicted in France for refusing to hand over to the police a priest who had raped children.


It recently came to light that a former top Vatican cardinal, Dario Castrillón, had written to the bishop,

I congratulate you for not denouncing a priest to the civil authorities. You have acted well, and I am pleased to have a colleague in the episcopate who, in the eyes of history and of all the bishops in the world, preferred prison to denouncing his ‘son’ and priest.” (The bishop actually got off with a suspended sentence.)

Castrillón claimed that Pope John Paul II had authorized the letter years ago and had told him to send it to bishops around the world. (New York Times, 4/22/2010.)

There are many more like Cardinal Law and Cardinal Castrillón in the hierarchy, aging men who have no life experience with children and show not the slightest regard or empathy for them. They claim it their duty to protect the “unborn child” but offer no protection to the children in their schools and parishes.

They themselves are called “Father” but they father no one. They do not reside in households or families. They live in an old-boys network, jockeying for power and position, dedicated to the Holy Mother Church that feeds, houses, and adorns them throughout their lives.

From their heady heights, popes and bishops cannot hear the cries of children. In any case, the church belongs not to little children but to the bedecked oligarchs.

The damage done to sexual victims continues to go unnoticed: the ensuing years of depression, drug addiction, alcoholism, panic attacks, sexual dysfunction, and even mental breakdown and suicide - all these terrible after-effects of child rape seem to leave popes and bishops more or less unruffled.





Circling the Wagons

The Catholic hierarchy managed to convince itself that the prime victim in this dismal saga is the church itself.

In 2010 it came to light that, while operating as John Paul’s über-hit man, Pope Benedict (then Cardinal Ratzinger) had provided cover and protection to several of the worst predator priests.

The scandal was now at the pope’s door - exactly where it should have been many years earlier during John Paul’s reign.

The Vatican’s response was predictable. The hierarchy circled the wagons to defend pope and church from outside “enemies.” The cardinals and bishops railed furiously at critics who “assault” the church and, in the words of the archbishop of Paris, subject it to “a smear campaign.” Benedict himself blamed secularism and misguided applications of Vatican 2’s aggiornamento as contributing to the “context” of sexual abuse.

Reform-minded liberalism made us do it, he seemed to be saying.

But this bristling Easter counterattack by the hierarchy did not play well. Church authorities came off looking like insular, arrogant elites who were unwilling to own up to a horrid situation largely of their own making.

Meanwhile the revelations continued. A bishop in Ireland resigned admitting he had covered up child abuse cases. Bishops in Germany and Belgium stepped down after confessing to charges that they themselves had abused minors. And new allegations were arising in Chile, Norway, Brazil, Italy, France, and Mexico.

Then, a fortnight after Easter, the Vatican appeared to change course and for the first time issued a directive urging bishops to report abuse cases to civil authorities “if required by local law.”

At the same time, Pope Benedict held brief meetings with survivor groups and issued sympathetic statements about their plight.

For many of the victims, the pontiff’s overtures and apologies were too little, too late. Their feeling was that if the Vatican really wanted to make amends, it should cooperate fully with law enforcement authorities and stop obstructing justice; it should ferret out abusive clergy and not wait until cases are publicized by others; and it should make public the church’s many thousands of still secret reports on priests and bishops.

In the midst of all this, some courageous clergy do speak out.

At a Sunday mass in a Catholic church outside Springfield, Massachusetts, the Rev. James Scahill delivered a telling sermon to his congregation (New York Times, 4/12/10):

“We must personally and collectively declare that we very much doubt the veracity of the pope and those of church authority who are defending him. It is beginning to become evident that for decades, if not centuries, church leadership covered up the abuse of children and minors to protect its institutional image and the image of priesthood”.

The abusive priests, Scahill went on, were “felons.”

He had “severe doubt” about the Vatican’s claims of innocent ignorance.

“If by any slimmest of chance the pope and all his bishops didn’t know-–they all should resign on the basis of sheer and complete ignorance, incompetence, and irresponsibility.”

How did Father Scahill’s suburban Catholic parishioners receive his scorching remarks? One or two walked out.

The rest gave him a standing ovation.

by Michael Parenti
May 13, 2010


(Since the institution of the papal office in 606 the Vatican has been plagued with Pope's who were adulterers, pedofiles, homosexuals, perverts and its HOLY office and the HOLY preisthood of this HOLY church is nothing but sexual perversions that characterized the Mystery Babylonian Religion).
 

targus

New Member
Aren't there rules about how much material can be copied from another source?

The above cut and past job looks to be pretty long.
 

Dr. Walter

New Member
Aren't there rules about how much material can be copied from another source?

The above cut and past job looks to be pretty long.

I would be concerned about the rules more than the truth too if I were in your shoes and took your position on Rome.
 
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