Catholic Taliban?

[DHK]

So one questionable writer - Mitch Kowalski - is the "secular world"?

Nothing like a little hyperbole.

There is no hyperbole. The OP is a press release. The writer is not questionable. He reports the facts. With any reporter there is some opinion, that is granted. Like I said, I agree with his assessment as I believe most of the secular world does. If you don't believe me, then read the responses (if you still can) to the article that he posted.

What you think is of no consequence here.

Don't make statements you can't back up.

The statements that the OP made can't be backed up.

They were backed up by various links to what is going on in the Philippines. You state your opinion. They stated the facts.

Your church demanding oaths for membership is acting like Taliban which is contradictory to Christian principles.

You state slander. You don't know what a covenant is. You don't know what our covenant says or how it is worded. You are in no position to comment on it. Stop the slanderous and false statements.

Where does Scripture provide an example of giving an oath of perfection in order to join a church?

More slanderous statements born out of ignorance. These are outright lies. You don't know what a covenant is. Pitiful!

Why does your church add to Scripture - demanding works for salvation?

A pitiful and slanderous accusation. Is there a reason for this? Don't say it was just a question; because it wasn't. It was an accusation, one that could bring discipline. Bringing the salvation of others into question is against the rules.

That is worse than the Taliban.

More false accusation.

That is heresay.

You are the one that speaks of hearsay.
You don't know what our constitution says, or our covenant says. And you speak of hearsay???????????????????

 

[targus]

DHK, show me in Scripture where a "covenant" is required for church membership.

 

[Thinkingstuff]

I can describe DHK in one word: Vehement.

 

[DHK]

Well, there is a distinction that is being missed. The catholic Church condemned people that much is true. I don't deny it. However, it was the civil authorities that actually killed people.

That is right. By your logic Hitler was a saint that should be canonized. He never harmed a soul. He never killed anyone. His soldiers did it for him. He was entirely innocent. You post nonsense.

Its kind of like anti-semitism. I never understood it. The Jews didn't actually kill Jesus. They condemned him to die but it was the Romans who carried it out.

They delivered him to Pilate to be condemned to death. The only reason they did that is because they themselves could not crucify him. They cried before him: "Crucify Him! Crucify Him!" They share the blame as much as the Romans. But then Christ went willingly and gave his life a ransom for many.

However, it was the Jews that were blamed for it.

And they were to blame. Are you that naive to say that they were not?

Well, the inquisition worked in this method. And strangely enough in some instances the Inquisition worked against killing people. But I think the distinction is often missed.

The RCC is a bloody organization that has killed millions throughout the centuries no matter which way you slice. You can't worm your way out of this. Inquistions or Crusades--the crusades themselves were composed of Catholic armies that decimated both Christians and Muslims alike. Both murder and genocide--mass murder was done outright by Catholics. These facts do not escape historians.

Kind of like John Calvin condemned Michael Sevetus but it was the Geneva authorities that burned him at the stake. So whether people take me seriously or not that is the way it happened. I think however people will see you're lacking in your history sir.

I am not lacking. You are trying to rewrite history. That is sad. More and more, I would agree with Dr. Walters that you must be a Catholic yourself.

 

[DHK]

DHK, show me in Scripture where a "covenant" is required for church membership.

If you had read my posts I told you that not all churches have covenants. Only some do. It is not a requirement. But in some churches it is required as part of an agreement with the constitution. If you don't like the agreement then go to a church that you do agree with. If you prefer to be a Presbyterian go to a Presbyterian church. The issue is not that big.

 

[DHK]

I can describe DHK in one word: Vehement.

Why? Because in the Philippines the Catholic Bishops are acting like thugs and the Taliban and no one is there to stop them. Shame!

 

[targus]

If you had read my posts I told you that not all churches have covenants. Only some do. It is not a requirement. But in some churches it is required as part of an agreement with the constitution. If you don't like the agreement then go to a church that you do agree with. If you prefer to be a Presbyterian go to a Presbyterian church. The issue is not that big.

Of course it is a big deal.

You said that no one in your church would ever commit or support certain acts - drinking, gambling, prostitution - because they made a covenant.

How exactly does one make a covenant with God?

God makes the covenant with us.

We can't tell God what to do in return.

Like I said - cultish.

Edited to ask - what is the consequence of breaking this covenant?

 

[Thinkingstuff]

That is right. By your logic Hitler was a saint that should be canonized. He never harmed a soul. He never killed anyone. His soldiers did it for him. He was entirely innocent. You post nonsense.

Talk about extremes!

They delivered him to Pilate to be condemned to death. The only reason they did that is because they themselves could not crucify him. They cried before him: "Crucify Him! Crucify Him!" They share the blame as much as the Romans.

Yes but the point is the Romans were as much to blame. Yet they get off Scott free. Kind of like the European princes for the inquisition is it not?

And they were to blame. Are you that naive to say that they were not?

I didn't say that.

The RCC is a bloody organization that has killed millions throughout the centuries no matter which way you slice.

The math for the numbers killed for the inquisition is laughable. Europe would have been de-populated had millions been killed and millions more died of the plague. There would be nobody left. Remember during those years the earth didn't have 6.5 billion people. The world had about 300 million to 400 million people during the middle ages and that's world wide.

You can't worm your way out of this. Inquistions or Crusades--the crusades themselves were composed of Catholic armies that decimated both Christians and Muslims alike. Both murder and genocide--mass murder was done outright by Catholics. These facts do not escape historians.

Yeah Richard the Lion Heart Kind of England didn't massacre muslims at Acre in 1191. Sure it was the Catholic Church.

I am not lacking. You are trying to rewrite history

I am presenting real history.

That is sad. More and more, I would agree with Dr. Walters that you must be a Catholic yourself

What is sad is your irrational hatred of the Catholic Church has consumed you so much that you see conspiracies were there are none. You are so Vehemently opposed to the catholic Church that you see Catholics everywhere: in your closet, hidding under your bed, ready to pounce at you at any given time. Don't look over your shoulder there could be a Catholic waiting to burn you at the stake. When most Catholics I know are ordinary people trying there best to do what is right and for those who have a faith in Christ, trying to live their life as They believe God wants them to.

 

[Thinkingstuff]

Why? Because in the Philippines the Catholic Bishops are acting like thugs and the Taliban and no one is there to stop them. Shame!

No because of how you treat catholics. Such as comparing them to the Taliban! Riddiculous. Yeah, because they are catholics they can't protest or ask their members to do so. Apply what you want equally to protestant churches and you would be not so much the hyppocrite.

 

[Thinkingstuff]

IT Just occured to me. Shakespear in Hamlet made this comment. "Sir thou protesteth too much!" Alas! Could it be? DHK is Catholic!

That makes sense He can't infiltrate the Baptist Churches of Canada being an open Jesuit spy! No he must be the Vehemently Oppossed Militant worker against Catholicism.

That must be it! Well, you caught brother DHK? Or do you insist on us calling you Father?

:laugh:

You know I'm kidding right? Wait, Sarcasm may not be a mode of Humor DHK likes.

 

[chadman]

The main problem with the Catholic Church, the Baptits, Methodists, Calvinist, wait, this list could get really long, like 30K plus....

...is that Human Nature is fairly well distributed throughout the human race. And since humans will always inhabit churches - there will always be sin in the church.

Catholics have killed in the name of God.
Protestants and reformers have killed in the name of God.
Muslims have killed in the name of God.
Non-religious groups have killed for whatever they wanted (power).

Humans do those things. The catholics get blamed for pedopohilia, Evangelicals get blamed for fornication and adultery. Does anyone systematically teach them to keep on sinning like this? No, they are human and just do it.

I wish people would quit trying to make the worst part of humanity, and make it some foundation for some religions or denominations. That's ludicrous and shows a pretty low level of education or reational reality.

Does DHK really 'honestly' - I mean 'honestly' believe 100% all this Chick Publication style stuff, and all that conspiracy stuff? C'mon DHK - really? LOL.

 

[DHK]

Does DHK really 'honestly' - I mean 'honestly' believe 100% all this Chick Publication style stuff, and all that conspiracy stuff? C'mon DHK - really? LOL.

I really tire of false accusations.
Did you bother to read the OP? It was a news article written from a reputable news source. Chick has nothing to do with it. What motivates you to come and post slander? Read before you post.

From the Financial Post, September 30, 2010:

A Catholic Taliban rules the Philippines?

 

[chadman]

I really tire of false accusations.
Did you bother to read the OP? It was a news article written from a reputable news source. Chick has nothing to do with it. What motivates you to come and post slander? Read before you post.

From the Financial Post, September 30, 2010:
[/B]

Sorry DHK- I spent a while reading a bunch of other stuff you had written - can't spout it all back right now. When I was a kid, I lived on the Chick stuff against the catholics. Sorry - you have that same kind of 'tune' about you. Geez dude. 'I' was this way for a long time. It takes one to know one, and I know the song. I used to pound in people at parties as to exactly 'how' they were saved. Tell me exactly when - what were your thoughts? Did you remember to ASK him to come in? Did you KNOW it was by Grace THROUGH faith - or was it grace alone by faith - or grace by faith alone? You didn't skip the grace part right? Oh darn - did you remember to admit you were a sinner?! Did you consider asking him into your heart to be a WORK by chance? Oh no...You get the picture.

When I was reading one of those threads it seemed even something as simple as believing in Jesus and calling on his name to come into your heart - comes with dogmatic conditions. You seem to think people have to 'think' certain ways about each thing for anything to actually spiritually take place. Maybe I have you wrong.

 

[targus]

If you don't like the agreement then go to a church that you do agree with. If you prefer to be a Presbyterian go to a Presbyterian church.

How did I miss this !!??

Why don't you feel this way about the President of the Phillipines?

He disagrees with his churches beliefs and that makes the Catholic the Taliban.

In your mind the Catholic church needs to ignore all any dissent from their teachings - but if someone doesn't agree with your church - well they can just go find another church !! :laugh:

 

[DHK]

How did I miss this !!??

Why don't you feel this way about the President of the Phillipines?

He disagrees with his churches beliefs and that makes the Catholic the Taliban.

In your mind the Catholic church needs to ignore all any dissent from their teachings - but if someone doesn't agree with your church - well they can just go find another church !! :laugh:

Targus why don't you post something that makes some sense. Spouting off at the mouth without engaging the brain does not look good for you.

Every man has the soul liberty, the freedom of choice to choose whatever church he wants to. In the Philippines Aquino is already a Catholic. The Catholic Bishops want to disgrace him publicly, shame him, with the silly threat of excommunication if he passes a bill that they don't like.

It is the Taliban method of doing things.
Do as I say or I will ______(kill, kidnap, excommunicate, etc.) you.
These threats and ultimatums are not in line with Christianity and in fact go entirely opposite to it. Did Christ ever behave this way? NO.

The RCC is doing every thing in its power to get its way politically in the Philippines using corruption as a means of power. Is this right? NO

Thus the secular media, as reported in the Financial Times, has rightly called them "Catholic Taliban," and rightly so, I agree with them. If you don't you have your RCC blinders on.

 

[targus]

So DHK, why are you so afraid to say what your church would do with a member that openly and publicly went against your churches beliefs?

What would your church do about a member that happened to be a politician that publicly supported a law in favor of legalized gambling.

Why are you so afraid to tell us?

 

[DHK]

So DHK, why are you so afraid to say what your church would do with a member that openly and publicly went against your churches beliefs?

What would your church do about a member that happened to be a politician that publicly supported a law in favor of legalized gambling.

Why are you so afraid to tell us?

I am not afraid to tell you anything.
My church is not the topic.
The Catholic Taliban in the Philippines is the topic here and you can't get that through your head. Are you going to sit there at your keyboard and defend what the Catholic bishops are doing in the Philippines--bullying the government of the Philippines until they get their way? That is unbelievable.

Would you allow for the same thing in your own nation? Would your reaction be the same? If you were fair in your position and honest with yourself, then you would advocate a position such as this: The Vatican (Pope) should lay charges against Obama/Clinton (because of their pro-abortion stance and all the murders (abortions) that have resulted because of it), arrest them, lay charges against them, put them in jail, and have them tried and found guilty of crimes against humanity.

Why aren't the Catholic Bishops of America, and even the Pope himself trying to arrest these murderers (these abortionists) and take action against them? They would never try it in America.

But they would in the Philippines. Because there they are nothing but political thugs. But you won't admit to that.

 

[targus]

You are able to say that the Catholics are wrong.

But you can't say what your church would do differently in a similar situation.

I can only conclude that they would do the same.

Except that your church - by your own words - might use physical force to eject the offener.

I don't blame you for not anwering.

If I were in your shoes I wouldn't want to answer either.

 

[DHK]

You are able to say that the Catholics are wrong.

But you can't say what your church would do differently in a similar situation.

I can only conclude that they would do the same.

Except that your church - by your own words - might use physical force to eject the offener.

I don't blame you for not anwering.

If I were in your shoes I wouldn't want to answer either.

Stick to the OP. If you want to discuss ecclesiology start another thread. You are off topic. I will not allow you to derail the thread. I will also start deleting posts that are off topic from hereon in. My church is not the topic of the thread.

The Catholic Church may or may not be right on contraception. That is not the issue.
If the bill was on polygamy it would not matter. The content of the bill is irrelevant. The RCC is acting like thugs, like Taliban, to get their way. The President of the nation is trying to pass a bill which he believes is in the best interest of his nation. This is a democratic nation. The Catholic thugs of the RCC organization are trying to strong arm him because they don't like it.

The Bible teaches a separation between church and state. The Bishops should not be bullying the President like the Taliban bully the Afghan people, just to get their way. It is a form of power control, which is what the RCC is all about--power at any cost. Why was the inquisition so successful. It was absolute power in the RCC's hand.

 

[targus]

You talk about soul liberty. You opened the door to that discussion within this thread.

How does soul liberty work in your church if someone decides that they want to openly and publicly support something which goes against the beliefs of your church?

If a member of your church were to happen to be a politician that openly and publicly supports a law that would legalize something that your church considers to be a sin - such as legalized gambling - how would your church respond?

Would they say "Well he does have soul liberty so it is his right to do that" or would they try to make him stop?

Come on DHK, the whole board can see that you are avoiding the obvious here.

Man up - answer the question.

Everything that you say about the Catholics means nothing - because you and your church are no different in this type of situation.

Loose your credibility here and you loose it everywhere.

Answer the question - I dare you.