Catholic Verses Baptist

OK, if I am not baptized, can i go to Heaven?

 

ERRATA: I made a serious blunder in my reference to "veni, vidi,vici" having been said by Constantine I(the Great). Not only did I make the quote wrong, I ascribed it to the wrong person. "According to Plutarch, these are the words by which Julius Caesar succinctly described one of his victories."

Constantine I says he had a dream in which he saw the sign of the cross and the words "by this sign conquer." He apparently won many battles there after; and ascribed his victories to the power of the "Christian" God whose symbol was inscribed on his battle flags.

Having said all that, let me again apologize for not having edited my references properly. I seem to be suffering from insomnia, and spend many hours at the computer from 2-5 a.m. My editor(me) seems to be asleep while awake--you know what I mean?
The main point of what I was trying to convey is that the Holy See cannot trace their origin before the fourth century--when Constantine I performed the first marriage of Church and State. Some scholars say he was the one to call the Council of Nicea. I believe Constantine was not the first Christian Emperor just like Peter was not the first pope. This whole argument hinges on Mt. 16:18-20. If Peter was the first pope and the Holy See is really Holy, then all others are without authority. It is the same dilema the Jews had with the Baptism of John, from whence came his authority? They had a problem with Jesus' authority too. They tried to stone him when he said "I AM THAT I AM." They were eventually able to have Him tried and convicted for blasphemy; that was the inscription on the tree: THE KING OF THE JEWS.
I hasten to point that Jesus was not crucified by the Jews or the Romans. He gave His life willingly--a ransom for many. He could have had legions of angels rescue Him. But He did not.
The work is finished--Jesus paid it all. All our righteous is as filthy rags.

Selah,
Bro. James

 

Michael52
"I think you may have me confused with another poster - maybe?"
"
Absolutely right I mixed up you and Bro. James. I agree with you, I saw inaccurate stuff in his VIDI VICI VINCI post.
Not yet 50 and already senility is setting in.

 

No problem.

 

It depends on what you mean when you say not baptized.

If you are not baptized with the Holy Spirit, then you can not go to heaven.

If you are not baptized in water, then you can go to heaven, provided you have been baptized with the Holy Spirit. Though, if one has been baptized with the Holy Spirit he should have no reservations about being baptized in water to demonstrate the fact of the first (and necessary) baptism.

 

Absolutely, as long as you have put your faith in Christ!

BTW, I like your tragic_pizza moniker -- using a dramatic adjective like "tragic" for something as mundane as a pizza. Very clever!

 

I read through all the posts in this thread and didn't see anyone mention the main difference between Catholics and Baptists, unless I missed it.

The main difference is one of authority. The Roman Catholics believe their church has authority equal to the Bible; if an extra-Biblical teaching comes as an official pronouncement from the pope in a certain format (and I realize it is only in certain specific ways that this is done), then it is considered doctrine. An example of this is the assumption of Mary which, I believe, was taught in either in 1950 or 1954.

Baptists (and most evangelicals who are not Baptists) hold the Bible as their authority. The difference is the sola scriptura stand. (And I've been through the question, "Where does the Bible support sola scriptura, so don't go there. ).

 

Another big difference :

The RC teaches that grace is conveyed through the sacraments and their definition of justification is different from Baptists.

In Baptist land, you are justified (declared righteous) in God's eyes upon salvation. I think the RC teaches that justification takes place over time, and you still need to go to purgatory to keep on getting purged in order to enter heaven. If anyone here is RC and disagrees or can clarify, please do so.

 

RCC says that the justification is Jesus Christ, his saving work. Jesus Christ is our righteousness. RCC says by grace through faith we are saved. Is it different from Baptists?

Mathew 12:32
"And whosoever speaketh a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him: but whosoever speaketh against the Holy Ghost, it shall not be forgiven him, neither in this world, neither in the world to come."
1 Cor 3:11-15
"11 For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ.
12 Now if any man build upon this foundation gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble;
13 Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is.
14 If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward.
15 If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire."

This is an indication that some sins can be forgiven in the world to come. We believe the purgatory exists.
We don't believe that all the people will go to purgatory, only some of them.

 

Bro. James

Your views are slightly incorrect.
On the one hand the notion of the pope being more than simply the bishop of Rome starts with pope Damasus I, that's within the 4th century but 40 years after the Council of Nicea and over 2 decades after the death of Constantine. It takes another 70 years untill pope Leo the Great for the idea that the bishop of Rome is somebody special to fully take form.
On the other hand, there has been a bishop (in the traditional sense of the word) in Rome since Pius I got the job in 142 A.D., long before Constantine came to power. Prior to Pius, the Christian church in Rome seems to have been run by committee.

"If Peter was the first pope and the Holy See is really Holy, then all others are without authority."
''
Not really, for example the Koptic Church has it's own line of succession that goes back to one of the Evangelists.

 

Marcia
"An example of this is the assumption of Mary which, I believe, was taught in either in 1950 or 1954."
''
Pronounced by Pius XII in 1950, it's the only time a pope has claimed to use his power to make an infallible statement.

"I think the RC teaches that justification takes place over time, and you<MAY> still need to go <THROUGH THE PROCES OF> purgatory <...> in order to enter heaven."
''
Marcia, I think the changes I made to your description take it closer to official RCC doctrine.

 

Whatever happened to: One Lord, One Faith, One Baptism?

Selah
Bro. James

 

Since purgatory wasn't introduced by the RCC until the sixth century and only made church doctrine in the Council of Florence in 1439, why did it take so long for it to be revealed?

It does seem like something that important would have been revealed a little clearer in the Bible.

 

You mean they were ... Baptists?

Cool! Sort of gives you new perspective on the power and importance of the work of your Church's committee to nominate the nomination committee, committee.