Catholics and Muslims

[neal4christ]

I'm not sure what you were asking about in regards to Mohammed and Christ. Christ is part of the Godhead. Mohammed was just a man. While Islam doesn't believe that Jesus was part of the Godhead, it doesn't believe anything other than Mohammed being a man.

I was asking (should have been more clear) about what Mohammed knew about the claims of Christ. In the Koran it appears he has some knowledge. So if he had knowledge of the truth of Christ and rejected it, wouldn't that mean that Islam is founded on the rejection of Christ, not ignorance?

Neal

 

[Johnv]

SheEagle, the link you provided is:
1 - broken, and
2 - Not the the encyclopedia britannica.

However, according to Encyclopaedia Britannica:

ALLAH: (Arabic: “God”), the one and only God in the religion of Islam . Etymologically, the name Allah is probably a contraction of the Arabic al-Ilah, “the God.” The name's origin can be traced back to the earliest Semitic writings in which the word for god was Il or El, the latter being an Old Testament synonym for Yahweh. Allah is the standard Arabic word for “God” and is used by Arab Christians…

Allah. Encyclopædia Britannica. Retrieved May 29, 2003, from Encyclopædia Britannica Premium Service.
<http://www.britannica.com/eb/article?eu=5849>

Your other questions are irrelevant to the topic at hand, which is whether or not the Islamic God is also the God of the Jews and Christians, whether their views on Christ are because of rejection or misconcemtopn, and of course, what the Roman Catholic view is on Muslims. As for your other questions, you're preaching to the choir. Not sure why, I've stated numerous times that I don't feel Islam has elements that are contrary to Christianity. I've said the same about Judaism. Your baiting in an attempt to incite an arguement is rather fruitless. You as a moderator in other forums should be attempting to stay on topic. Shame on you.

[ May 28, 2003, 10:40 PM: Message edited by: Johnv ]

 

[Johnv]

Originally posted by neal4christ:
I was asking (should have been more clear) about what Mohammed knew about the claims of Christ. In the Koran it appears he has some knowledge. So if he had knowledge of the truth of Christ and rejected it, wouldn't that mean that Islam is founded on the rejection of Christ, not ignorance?

Neal

Kathryn brought it up earlier, and I've read it as well, that Muhammed was likely influenced by Arianism, which, to us, is a rather heretical form of belief. Also, Muslims have generally been told that Jesus can't be God's son, because if God is the Almighty, there's no need for a son. Also, it describes the Trinity to be a Father, a Mother, and a Son. Clearly, this is a major misunderstanding of the Trinity, and, if this really were the Trinity, we should be avoiding that belief, since it contradicts the Godhead. Mohammed clearly did have some knowlege if you read the Koran. But, in reading the Koran, it's evident that he also had some major misconceptions about Christianity.

 

[neal4christ]

Thanks for you input, John. If I get time one day I would like to look into this issue a little more.

Neal

 

[LadyEagle]

Not sure why, I've stated numerous times that I don't feel Islam has elements that are contrary to Christianity.

Glad you have a personal opinion, but opinions are not always the truth.

BTW, I've had just about enough of your personal attacks throughout these different threads. I am politely asking you to cease & desist. Shame on YOU!

 

[LadyEagle]

neal, I apologize for hijacking your thread. The Quran does speak about Jesus Christ, as the one who will come back and the whole world will be Muslim. All the Jews & Christians will be killed. Nice plan, huh?

The Messiah will descend to Damascus and pray behind an imam. Really. The Creator of the Universe is going to pray behind some lowly self appointed Imam. Boggles the mind. The religion of Allah will rule the world. (Don't make me laugh! )

I posted this little piece on the poll forum, but will post it here.

Identification of the Promised Messiah
The Holy Prophet Muhammad(SAW) has prophesied about several events that will occur just before the advent of the day of judgment. Among these, Rasulullah(SAW) has foretold the return of Isa(pbuh) (Jesus), which will materialize, when a one eyed claimant to divinity (Dajjal) will attempt to misguide the humanity into worshipping him. Messiah will descend from the heavens in Damascus, pray behind Imam Mahdi, pursue and kill the Dajjal, destroy the savage and unbelieving armies of Gog and Magog, and bring peace and brotherhood to the world.

Everyone of the people of the book will recognize the truth and accept him only as a Messenger of Allah(SWT); the religion of Allah (Islam) will justly rule the world.


And there is none Of the people of the Scriptures (Jews and Christians) But must believe in him (i.e. Jesus as an Apostle of Allah and a human being) before his death. And on the Day of Judgment He will be a witness against them.
(The Holy Quran, An-Nisa, 4:159)

There will be no oppression and no need to fight oppressors (war will be abolished) and no need to collect Jizyah (since there will be no non-Muslim people of the Book to collect this tax from). Every human being will be well-off and no one will accept charity. Messiah will perform Hajj and/or Umrah, marry, remain married for 19 years, beget children, and die after living on earth for 40 years. His death will signal the beginning of the last days:


By Him in Whose Hands my soul is, surely (Jesus,) the Son of Mary will soon descend amongst you and will judge mankind justly (as a Just Ruler); he will break the Cross and kill the pigs and there will be no Jizyah (i.e. taxation taken from non Muslims). Money will be in abundance so that nobody will accept it, and a single prostration to Allah (in prayer) will be better than the whole world and whatever is in it." Abu Huraira added "If you wish, you can recite (this verse of the Holy Book): -- "And there is none Of the people of the Scriptures (Jews and Christians) But must believe in him (i.e Jesus as an Apostle of Allah and a human being) before his death. And on the Day of Judgment He will be a witness against them." (Quran 4:159)

(Sahih Bukhari, Vol. 4, Book 55, No. 657; Fateh-ul Bari, Vol. 7, P. 302)

http://www.irshad.org/islam/prophecy/messiah.htm


Where did Mo hear about the Second Coming, the Tribulation, etc.? From Christians (before he slaughtered them in Mecca). Where did he hear the Torah? From the Jews (before he slaughtered them in Mecca, too.) He founded his religion on self. Obviously at some point he had heard the truth, but in the spirit of satan who desired to be greater than God, made a religion in which he, Mo, would be the focus - not God and certainly not the Redeemer of Mankind. His contempt for Jews and Christians is reflected in the passages above.

But where did an illiterate hallucinatory nomad acquire the ability to pen the Quran? (I will post the answer at a later time.)

My understanding (will need to research more) is that St. Augustine was anti-semitic (meaning anti-Jewish). Thought I'd toss that ditty into this love-fest of a thread.

 

[Ps104_33]

Here is a couple of interesting verses from the Koran. What do you make of them?

"And thereafter we said to the Children of Israel: 'Dwell securely in the Promised Land, And when the last warning will come to pass, we will gather you together in a mingled crowd'" (The night journey 17:104)

"Bear in mind the words of Moses to his people Israel (children of Israel) ......Enter, my People, the Holy Land which God has assigned for you. Do not turn back and thus lose all."
(Surah 5:21)

Do these verses teach that the Koran is saying that the Holy Land does indeed belong to Israel?

Maybe some Muslim scholar out there can put these verses in their proper context.

 

[Rakka Rage]

http://www.gospelweb.net/mohammedvschrist.htm

 

[Johnv]

Originally posted by SheEagle9/11:

Glad you have a personal opinion, but opinions are not always the truth.

Oh I forgot. Only your opinions are truth. I found it interesting that you've often challenged my opinion, even though my opinion might have been in agreement with you.

BTW, I've had just about enough of your personal attacks throughout these different threads. I am politely asking you to cease & desist. Shame on YOU!

Uhhh, you're kidding, aren't you? Let she who without sin cast the first stone.

 

[LadyEagle]

Only your opinions are truth.

Now, you're getting somewhere.

 

[Johnv]

I should have listened to my mother... never argue with a woman... she's always going to be right...

 

[C.S. Murphy]

Originally posted by Johnv:
I've stated numerous times that I don't feel Islam has elements that are contrary to Christianity. I've said the same about Judaism.

John this is the reason your posts often provoke anger in others. your profile says you are Christian, Baptist and Southern Baptist. I could tell you that your remark above is not accepted by either of these groups but I am certain you would have a different opinion on that as well.
How in Heavens name can you feel this way? Am I misunderstanding your comment? No matter how you promote it islam is nothing more than a false religion from hell and it astonishes me to read statements like yours from a christian.
Murph

 

[Johnv]

The previous statement was a typo. It should have read:

I've stated numerous times that I feel Islam has elements that are contrary to Christianity. I've said the same about Judaism.

As there were other psts that followed it, I didn't think it was appropriate for me to go back and edit it after the fact. I thought I clarified this alter, but looks like I didn't.

Hope that helps,
~John

 

[Rakka Rage]

I've stated numerous times that I feel Islam has elements that are contrary to Christianity. I've said the same about Judaism.

John.4
[22] Ye worship ye know not what: we know what we worship: for salvation is of the Jews.

Judaism is the basis of Christianity... Islam is not.

 

[Johnv]

using the criteria that is used with Islam (or, for that matter, any religion), the fact that Jews deny Christ and the Trinity, messianic prophecies in the OT, and all of the NT, categorically makes it a false religion.

 

[DHK]

Originally posted by Johnv:
using the criteria that is used with Islam (or, for that matter, any religion), the fact that Jews deny Christ and the Trinity, messianic prophecies in the OT, and all of the NT, categorically makes it a false religion.

You are right. Both Islam and Judaism (as it exists today) are false religions. Both, if they died without Christ would spend an eternity in Hell. The only difference in the two is that God made a covenant with Jews, but never with Islam, a Satanic religion. This covenant with the Jews has yet to be fulfilled.

Romans 11:26 says: "So then all Israel shall be saved." This will be fulfilled near the end of the Great Tribulation period which is still to come. At that time Jesus will come and the remnant of Israel still alive (all Israel) shall be saved. The covenant will be fulfilled. There is no such covenant with Islam. They do not serve the God of Abraham, nor the God of the Bible. Their God is a Satanic-inspired god, as their religion is a Satanic-inspired religion leading more than a billion souls to Hell.
DHK

 

[Johnv]

This covenant with the Jews has yet to be fulfilled.

Many will argue, and have argued, that the covenant with the Jews was fulfilled by Christ. I'm a gentile, not a Jew, so I haven't really speant a lot of time wondering how Romans 11 affects me, but I have wondered how it affects other gentile non-christians. It's a great verse that speaks of the remnant (of course, there have been endless debates over whether we're the remnant, whether Israel is the remnant, or whether all non-believers are the remnant). But the context implies that those who have rejected "the deliverer" (I assume that to be Christ) will through hime one day be saved. While this verse is addressing Israel (the people, not the country), it is not exclusive of others, such as Muslims, Mormons, JW's, etc. He was addressing the Israelites here because he was an Israelite. Anywahy, I don't want to go too much into that, because it's a bit off topic, and we probably start a whole new thread about Romans 11. I think this topic as it stands now has probably been talked out.

 

[DHK]

Jeremiah 31
31 Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:
32 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the LORD:
33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.
34 And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the LORD: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the LORD: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.

Romans 11:
26 And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:
27 For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins.

Rev. 1:7 Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they also which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen.

Jesus has not come yet. Every eye has not seen him. The sins of all the Jews have not yet been forgiven. The covenant made with them has not yet been fulfilled. There are hundreds of references to this subject which have not even been touched yet. The fact remains: A covenant was made with the nation of Israel. It has not been fulfilled. It will be fulfilled when Christ comes. When Christ comes every eye shall behold him. That day has not yet been in history. Any person who says it has already come is greatly deceived.
DHK

 

[neal4christ]

Yes, the original topic was dead from the get-go. I only left it to show the big mistake I made. It is amazing how much you understand when you actually read with comprehension. Although, I still don't like the part about worshipping the same God. But like you said, that can be broadened and made its own thread.

Neal

 

[LadyEagle]

Neal, we may be ignorant thread busters, but we love ya!

Don't give up, there may be hope for us yet!