Catholics, and the Eucharist.

[Max Kennedy]

So then why don't all born again Christians who read the Bible under the guidance of the Holy Spirit all interpret it the same way?

Does the Holy Spirit lead one Christian to believe one thing and another something else?

Would contradictory interpretations of Scripture both be correct - or would at least one be wrong?

How do you know which is which?

What do you consider a contradiction and really important? You've just categorized a bunch of people by what they believe - you have to be born again, how to be saved, the bible, and then say they contradict each other.

Obviously, they don't contradict each other on many things or you couldn't group them. Amazing that some think the pope is needed to group people together - or even, if I am not part of the catholic church, "I am invisible". :jesus:

 

[targus]

What do you consider a contradiction and really important? You've just categorized a bunch of people by what they believe - you have to be born again, how to be saved, the bible, and then say they contradict each other.

Obviously, they don't contradict each other on many things or you couldn't group them. Amazing that some think the pope is needed to group people together - or even, if I am not part of the catholic church, "I am invisible". :jesus:

Why are you now qualifying it to "really important"?

Does the Holy Spirit only guide on the "really important" parts of Scripture?

How do you know what is "really important"?

Who said anything about needing a pope?

I am asking you how do you know that you are right in your Holy Spirit lead interpretation of some part of Scripture when it contradicts some other person's Holy Spirit lead interpretation?

Are both contradicting interpretations right?

If only one can be right - how do you know that you the one who is right?

 

[Max Kennedy]

Why are you now qualifying it to "really important"?

Does the Holy Spirit only guide on the "really important" parts of Scripture?

How do you know what is "really important"?

Yes, its how to be saved. We all agree on it. Thats the point.

Understanding the bible helps you in your *own* daily walk, but the one thing you need to know is how to be saved.

 

[targus]

Yes, its how to be saved. We all agree on it. Thats the point.

Understanding the bible helps you in your *own* daily walk, but the one thing you need to know is how to be saved.

Ok - so let's limit the discussion to that.

Some non-Baptist demoninations believe that baptism is necessary to be saved.

They have their Bible verses to support their belief.

They have studied the Scriptures also under the guidance of the Holy Spirit.

How do you know with certainty that your interpretation of Scripture is correct and theirs is wrong?

 

[Max Kennedy]

Ok - so let's limit the discussion to that.

Some non-Baptist demoninations believe that baptism is necessary to be saved.

They have their Bible verses to support their belief.

They have studied the Scriptures also under the guidance of the Holy Spirit.

How do you know with certainty that your interpretation of Scripture is correct and theirs is wrong?

Why does it matter?

You just told me - ok, lets limit the bible to how you use it for your daily walk, and then you just told me something that only a church group would be interested in.

 

[targus]

Why does it matter?

You just told me - ok, lets limit the bible to how you use it for your daily walk, and then you just told me something that only a church group would be interested in.

No - I said meant "lets limit it to the important stuff" like "how we are saved".

I assume that you think that "how we are saved" is one of the more important things found in Scripture.

So how do you know that your interpretation of the place of baptism in salvation is correct and some other interpretation is wrong.

 

[Max Kennedy]

No - I said meant "lets limit it to the important stuff" like "how we are saved".

I assume that you think that "how we are saved" is one of the more important things found in Scripture.

So how do you know that your interpretation of the place of baptism in salvation is correct and some other interpretation is wrong.

My intepretation of baptism isn't important - Jesus Christ is the one that baptizes you with the Holy Spirirt, its His interpretation thats correct. Water baptism is nothing.

You ought to be asking - How do I get Jesus Christ to baptize me?

 

[chadman]

Why does it matter?

You just told me - ok, lets limit the bible to how you use it for your daily walk, and then you just told me something that only a church group would be interested in.

Well, because one is right, and one is wrong? LOL. Right? And I want to do the one that is right - right?

 

[Max Kennedy]

Almost all evengelical protestant denominations believe the same thing - ie the bible - on how to be saved. That is why you have non-denominational tracts. Anything that they add is just so much man made junk. Its possible to read the bible and be saved, because its God that saves you.

Romans 10:8
But what saith it? The word is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach;
9That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
10For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.
11For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.
12For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him.
13For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.


Mat 3:11 I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance: but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost, and with fire:

 

[Max Kennedy]

Well, because one is right, and one is wrong? LOL. Right? And I want to do the one that is right - right?

But if we are limiting the discusion to YOUR daily walk then what you do with YOUR life is between you and the Lord.

This argument is distinctly like the difference between communism and capatilism. Communism tries to rule everyone from abover and doesn't work. In this case, the alternative is letting every member obey the HEAD directly, like a body should operate. That head is Jesus Christ, our Lord and Savior.

The bible is primary for your daily walk. After you are saved, its purpose is not to save you more. But its for your sanctification.

 

[targus]

I am begining to wonder how Max Kennedy is able to interpret the Bible with such perfection when he has such difficulty in understanding what others are writing to him here on the board.

 

[chadman]

My intepretation of baptism isn't important

Huh? Jesus is about to go to Heaven for a very long time - last instructions - everybody listen up closely -The Great Commission. He gives three basic instructions and one is Baptism. I'm going to go ahead and choose to believe that it's important - regardless of anything I have heard to the contrary.

- Jesus Christ is the one that baptizes you with the Holy Spirirt, its His interpretation thats correct.

Jesus is the truth - he doesn't interpret his own words - he was the source of these statements. He speaks - we interpret.

Water baptism is nothing.

It's in the Bible - Jesus asked to be baptized in water - his Apostles did it. Maybe it's not relevant to you, but it's obviously more than 'nothing'.

We Baptists tell the whole world constantly ad nauseum that we believe the Bible, that is our sole authority, that it alone contains all truth, that it's the most important piece of truth. Yet, I get out of sorts when the same Baptists (assuming here) go ripping pieces out of it - this is important - this is nothing - James doesn't apply - segment this from that - cut and dry - confusing as all get out is what it is.

 

[Max Kennedy]

I am begining to wonder how Max Kennedy is able to interpret the Bible with such perfection when he has such difficulty in understanding what others are writing to him here on the board.

I wonder how I am even able to live..

Because its the bible that is perfect. God uses it to grow you as a Christian everyday. Youi may sin. You may not be perfect. And that it the whole point - what is good for someone else at the moment may not be what God is showing you for your daily walk with His Word.

 

[Max Kennedy]

Jesus is the truth - he doesn't interpret his own words - he was the source of these statements. He speaks - we interpret.

Jesus is still speaking. He stands at the door knockling.

It's in the Bible - Jesus asked to be baptized in water - his Apostles did it. Maybe it's not relevant to you, but it's obviously more than 'nothing'.

You will never find Jesus baptizing with water in the bible.

Also, you will never find most Christian witnesses baptizing with water. When they witness, Jesus saves with the Holy Spirit. Thats the baptising in the Great Commision - which does not fyi say water baptising, but just baptising.

If you wish to be contentious, then you tell the billion or more people who have been saved by witnesses following the great commision that they should have water baptised them - because baptism by Jesus Christ himself wasn't enough!

What you want is from above.

 

[chadman]

Jesus is still speaking. He stands at the door knockling.

Yes, and if you hear it, you know what to do next right? Don't get all spiritual on a topic change, geez.

You will never find Jesus baptizing with water in the bible.

I never said that. I said Jesus ASKED to be baptized in WATER. John the Baptist? Do you deny that? Why are you shifting the topic like that? Do you guys always debate this way? This is craziness man.

Also, you will never find most Christian witnesses baptizing with water. When they witness, Jesus saves with the Holy Spirit. Thats the baptising in the Great Commision - which does not fyi say water baptising, but just baptising.

Hey - you look at people all you want. I have seen thousands baptized in church in my lifetime. No they didn't all get baptized the day they asksed called on Jesus - SO WHAT? Thats our Baptist way bro. We choose to do it that way because we consider sybolic only.

But when I read the bible, not look at your witnesses - I want to believe there is something important going on there. Jesus asked to be baptized in water. He gave the Great Commission - then in Acts2 the first official sermon I know of, what are they doing after hearing the message of the Gospel? Yep - gettin' baptized as Acts 2:38 says in plain easy to read English. What does Phillip do to the Eunech on the road after preaching the Gospel? Went and did a little Baptizing right there. And Paul, after having his experience with Jesus? Same thing - more examples in the bible. I don't care what most winesses do today - I think it's more than 'NOTHING'.

If you wish to be contentious, then you tell the billion or more people who have been saved by witnesses following the great commision that they should have water baptised them

They should have been for sure. As Jesus comanded, and as the early christians did it.

- because baptism by Jesus Christ himself wasn't enough!

do you always add stuff to what other say? Why?

I didn't write the Bible, or die for your sins, or give the Great Commission - not my fault. Just doing what I am told.

Do you really honestly believe Jesus didn't want his Apostles to baptize people in water from his statement in the Great Commission? This is a real question. I mean get real here. Not for your argument - not as a possibility - do you really believe that he meant for baptism to not be with water at all? (Yeah Yeah Yeah, we all know the Holy Spirit baptizes your spirit - i get that. We get that)

 

[Max Kennedy]

Yes, and if you hear it, you know what to do next right? Don't get all spiritual on a topic change, geez.

I never said that. I said Jesus ASKED to be baptized in WATER. John the Baptist? Do you deny that? Why are you shifting the topic like that? Do you guys always debate this way? This is craziness man.

Actually, Jesus said:

Mat 3:15 And Jesus answering said unto him, Suffer it to be so now: for thus it becometh us to fulfil all righteousness. Then he suffered him.

Many people read "becomes ME to fulfil all righteousness", but it says "us" meaning John the Baptist and Jesus Christ. John the Baptist was part of prophecy. It reads different when you notice that.

You don't need to be water baptism to be saved. And no one can claim that the maelefactor on the cross wasn't saved.

 

[Max Kennedy]

Do you really honestly believe Jesus didn't want his Apostles to baptize people in water from his statement in the Great Commission? This is a real question. I mean get real here. Not for your argument - not as a possibility - do you really believe that he meant for baptism to not be with water at all? (Yeah Yeah Yeah, we all know the Holy Spirit baptizes your spirit - i get that. We get that)

You either have two choices. The great commision was for all Christians - and people skip right over the baptising part if its water. Or its for all Christians, and people have been going out with Jesus Christ the whole time witnessing. There is no way to xxxx out one part of it and say Christians should do every part but only local churches with man given authority should do the rest. Its either the whole commision or not.

The Great Commision does not say water baptism, and in context with the bible and how people actually witness, means the saving kind of baptism. Pray with people and led them to Jesus Christ.

 

[Max Kennedy]

do you really believe that he meant for baptism to not be with water at all? (Yeah Yeah Yeah, we all know the Holy Spirit baptizes your spirit - i get that. We get that)

Act 1:5 For John truly baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost not many days hence.

Doesn't list three types here, just two.

No real baptist of any man made affiliation will tell you you need to be water baptised to be saved, they will just say you need to go to church and do it, meanwhile disagreeing about how that is done. Stick with the Holy Bible, it doesn't disagree with God or itself.

 

[chadman]

The Great Commision does not say water baptism, and in context with the bible and how people actually witness, means the saving kind of baptism. Pray with people and led them to Jesus Christ.

I want to believe you but, then I read the application of the Great Commission in real examples in the Bible, and sorry, I find water baptism right there in Acts 2 - with Peter - with Phillip and the eunek (sp?!), and Paul, and even early christianity. That's what I see in the Bibles examples of sharing the Gospel and following the teaching passed by Jesus. I did not say water baptism saves you did I. No I didn't I said it was more than 'nothing'. You said it's nothing - I find it everywhere in the Bible.

I am not drawing any big conclusions here - just telling you what is right there in plain black and white text. It's more than nothing. That's my conclusion.

 

[Max Kennedy]

I want to believe you but, then I read the application of the Great Commission in real examples in the Bible, and sorry, I find water baptism right there in Acts 2 - with Peter - with Phillip and the eunek (sp?!), and Paul, and even early christianity. That's what I see in the Bibles examples of sharing the Gospel and following the teaching passed by Jesus. I did not say water baptism saves you did I. No I didn't I said it was more than 'nothing'. You said it's nothing - I find it everywhere in the Bible.

I am not drawing any big conclusions here - just telling you what is right there in plain black and white text. It's more than nothing. That's my conclusion.

Than your witness will be faulty, and Jesus Christ may not choose to witness through you, if you say water baptism saves.

Jesus says that the fornicating church will have her children struck down dead. He is the one that saves and He rules the churches.

Don't judge by appearance, judge righteous judgement.