Catholics,Baptists,Birth Control/Pro-Life Issues & Compromise

[Gregory Perry Sr.]

Per/ Earth,Wind and Fire's request, I am posting a duplicate thread here so that our non-Baptist members on the Baptist Board can have posting access to it. Here is my OP from the Baptist Only General Discussion Forum above (in its entirety) under the same title as follows:

The following is an excerpt from another post I made in another thread that I believe was the central idea I was trying to highlight about the Catholic Church and their supposed "pro-life" stance. I just want to re-highlight it for comment here...pro or con...What do we who call ourselves "Bible-Believing" Baptists really believe about these things? This was my opinion based on what I think to be the truth...what is yours? See the following:

"The following statement I'm going to make is strictly my opinion but I think it has merit from what I know of Catholicism. Their "stance" on birth control and pro-life issues is more than likely because of the apparent "fact" that the catholic "church"is "built" by live births and sustained NOT by evangelistic (soul-winning or proselytizing) in the Biblical model, but rather by prohibiting their parishioners from practicing birth control aside from "natural" so-called rhythm methods. They are, of course prohibited from getting abortions as well. (we obviously CAN thank God for that). They build their "church" by making babies and "raising" their "membership" from the marriage bed.....UP. As far as I know it IS still true that if a non-catholic and a practicing catholic marry, the non-catholic is required to sign a statement that requires that any children born of the union must be raised in the catholic church. It used to be that way and if they have ever changed that I don't know about it. I honestly believe their pro-life "convictions" are more about being self-sustaining as a church body than any scriptural or truly godly respect for life in the Biblical sense.

Remember....this is the same "church" that gave us the Inquisition and had no qualms about murdering hundreds of thousands, possibly millions of "protestants" who refused to bow to their ungodly edicts and abuses.
(I'll add this here...correct me if I am wrong...but as far as I know the "Holy Mother Church" has NEVER apologized to ANYBODY for that "Inquisition".Yes/No?)

Catholicism is a false religion. They hide MUCH behind a false sense of "piety"and all their religious "finery". That is why we shouldn't join hands with them...even on the abortion issue. We should, as Bible-Believers stand against the murderous practice of abortion as well as other unbiblical things such as same-sex marriage,etc......but for sound Biblical reasons. We cannot yoke up with Rome, or Salt Lake City or any other unbiblical group and be right and pleasing to our God. We'll never see revival on any level if we compromise the plain teaching of and adherence to the truth. Nor will any preacher ever win any popularity contests by preaching or teaching the kind of stuff I just said."


To close this...I know I sound very negative about the Catholic Church and their "religion" but that is because I honestly do believe that their system of belief is a false system that is misleading millions into an unending eternity in the Lake of Fire. It is no more Biblical than Islam, Hinduism, Buddhism, Mormonism or JW's or any of the countless other isms and schisms in our day. In this opinion and belief I confess to being immovably dogmatic.

Bro.Greg :type:

 

[Thinkingstuff]

Per/ Earth,Wind and Fire's request, I am posting a duplicate thread here so that our non-Baptist members on the Baptist Board can have posting access to it. Here is my OP from the Baptist Only General Discussion Forum above (in its entirety) under the same title as follows:

The following is an excerpt from another post I made in another thread that I believe was the central idea I was trying to highlight about the Catholic Church and their supposed "pro-life" stance. I just want to re-highlight it for comment here...pro or con...What do we who call ourselves "Bible-Believing" Baptists really believe about these things? This was my opinion based on what I think to be the truth...what is yours? See the following:

"The following statement I'm going to make is strictly my opinion but I think it has merit from what I know of Catholicism. Their "stance" on birth control and pro-life issues is more than likely because of the apparent "fact" that the catholic "church"is "built" by live births and sustained NOT by evangelistic (soul-winning or proselytizing) in the Biblical model, but rather by prohibiting their parishioners from practicing birth control aside from "natural" so-called rhythm methods. They are, of course prohibited from getting abortions as well. (we obviously CAN thank God for that). They build their "church" by making babies and "raising" their "membership" from the marriage bed.....UP. As far as I know it IS still true that if a non-catholic and a practicing catholic marry, the non-catholic is required to sign a statement that requires that any children born of the union must be raised in the catholic church. It used to be that way and if they have ever changed that I don't know about it. I honestly believe their pro-life "convictions" are more about being self-sustaining as a church body than any scriptural or truly godly respect for life in the Biblical sense.

Remember....this is the same "church" that gave us the Inquisition and had no qualms about murdering hundreds of thousands, possibly millions of "protestants" who refused to bow to their ungodly edicts and abuses.
(I'll add this here...correct me if I am wrong...but as far as I know the "Holy Mother Church" has NEVER apologized to ANYBODY for that "Inquisition".Yes/No?)

Catholicism is a false religion. They hide MUCH behind a false sense of "piety"and all their religious "finery". That is why we shouldn't join hands with them...even on the abortion issue. We should, as Bible-Believers stand against the murderous practice of abortion as well as other unbiblical things such as same-sex marriage,etc......but for sound Biblical reasons. We cannot yoke up with Rome, or Salt Lake City or any other unbiblical group and be right and pleasing to our God. We'll never see revival on any level if we compromise the plain teaching of and adherence to the truth. Nor will any preacher ever win any popularity contests by preaching or teaching the kind of stuff I just said."


To close this...I know I sound very negative about the Catholic Church and their "religion" but that is because I honestly do believe that their system of belief is a false system that is misleading millions into an unending eternity in the Lake of Fire. It is no more Biblical than Islam, Hinduism, Buddhism, Mormonism or JW's or any of the countless other isms and schisms in our day. In this opinion and belief I confess to being immovably dogmatic.

Bro.Greg :type:

This statement is untrue

Their "stance" on birth control and pro-life issues is more than likely because of the apparent "fact" that the catholic "church"is "built" by live births and sustained NOT by evangelistic (soul-winning or proselytizing) in the Biblical model, but rather by prohibiting their parishioners from practicing birth control aside from "natural" so-called rhythm methods. They are, of course prohibited from getting abortions as well. (we obviously CAN thank God for that). They build their "church" by making babies and "raising" their "membership" from the marriage bed.....UP.

Catholics do evangelize and have missionaries as other Christian Churches do. Just because you haven't encountered them doesn't mean they don't exist. The reasons that Catholics do not allow for contraceptions and abortion is spelled out in a Papal Encylical Humanae Vitae. Here is an exerpt

Marriage, then, is far from being the effect of chance or the result of the blind evolution of natural forces. It is in reality the wise and provident institution of God the Creator, whose purpose was to effect in man His loving design. As a consequence, husband and wife, through that mutual gift of themselves, which is specific and exclusive to them alone, develop that union of two persons in which they perfect one another, cooperating with God in the generation and rearing of new lives The marriage of those who have been baptized is, in addition, invested with the dignity of a sacramental sign of grace, for it represents the union of Christ and His Church...From this it follows that they are not free to act as they choose in the service of transmitting life, as if it were wholly up to them to decide what is the right course to follow. On the contrary, they are bound to ensure that what they do corresponds to the will of God the Creator. The very nature of marriage and its use makes His will clear...Consequently, unless we are willing that the responsibility of procreating life should be left to the arbitrary decision of men, we must accept that there are certain limits, beyond which it is wrong to go, to the power of man over his own body and its natural functions—limits, let it be said, which no one, whether as a private individual or as a public authority, can lawfully exceed. These limits are expressly imposed because of the reverence due to the whole human organism and its natural functions, in the light of the principles We stated earlier, and in accordance with a correct understanding of the "principle of totality"... It is to be anticipated that perhaps not everyone will easily accept this particular teaching. There is too much clamorous outcry against the voice of the Church, and this is intensified by modern means of communication. But it comes as no surprise to the Church that she, no less than her divine Founder, is destined to be a "sign of contradiction." (22) She does not, because of this, evade the duty imposed on her of proclaiming humbly but firmly the entire moral law, both natural and evangelical.

Since the Church did not make either of these laws, she cannot be their arbiter—only their guardian and interpreter. It could never be right for her to declare lawful what is in fact unlawful, since that, by its very nature, is always opposed to the true good of man.

In preserving intact the whole moral law of marriage, the Church is convinced that she is contributing to the creation of a truly human civilization. She urges man not to betray his personal responsibilities by putting all his faith in technical expedients. In this way she defends the dignity of husband and wife. This course of action shows that the Church, loyal to the example and teaching of the divine Savior, is sincere and unselfish in her regard for men whom she strives to help even now during this earthly pilgrimage "to share God's life as sons of the living God, the Father of all men."

Finally what you believe about the inquisition is not true. But that is another topic which should be discussed properly at length.

 

[Matt Black]

Per/ Earth,Wind and Fire's request, I am posting a duplicate thread here so that our non-Baptist members on the Baptist Board can have posting access to it. Here is my OP from the Baptist Only General Discussion Forum above (in its entirety) under the same title as follows:

Thanks!

The following is an excerpt from another post I made in another thread that I believe was the central idea I was trying to highlight about the Catholic Church and their supposed "pro-life" stance. I just want to re-highlight it for comment here...pro or con...What do we who call ourselves "Bible-Believing" Baptists really believe about these things? This was my opinion based on what I think to be the truth...what is yours? See the following:

"The following statement I'm going to make is strictly my opinion but I think it has merit from what I know of Catholicism. Their "stance" on birth control and pro-life issues is more than likely because of the apparent "fact" that the catholic "church"is "built" by live births and sustained NOT by evangelistic (soul-winning or proselytizing) in the Biblical model, but rather by prohibiting their parishioners from practicing birth control aside from "natural" so-called rhythm methods. They are, of course prohibited from getting abortions as well. (we obviously CAN thank God for that). They build their "church" by making babies and "raising" their "membership" from the marriage bed.....UP. As far as I know it IS still true that if a non-catholic and a practicing catholic marry, the non-catholic is required to sign a statement that requires that any children born of the union must be raised in the catholic church. It used to be that way and if they have ever changed that I don't know about it. I honestly believe their pro-life "convictions" are more about being self-sustaining as a church body than any scriptural or truly godly respect for life in the Biblical sense.

Apart from the statement about non-Catholic partner married to a Catholic having to pledge to raise any children of the marriage Catholic, this is rubbish and ill-informed. Even the bit about the non-Catholic spouse is not universal practice: whilst it is the case that the Catholic spouse is to promise to use his/her best endeavours to raise the children Catholic, it is not required of the non-Catholic. The anti-birth control/ anti-abortion stance stems from a complete respect and regard for life as a gift from God from conception to natural death and has nothing to do with any kind of weird 'numbers game'; it is no different in that regard to the policy and doctrine of most evangelical denominations of around 100 years ago on these issues.

Plus what Thinkingstuff said re proselytisation

Remember....this is the same "church" that gave us the Inquisition and had no qualms about murdering hundreds of thousands, possibly millions of "protestants" who refused to bow to their ungodly edicts and abuses.

Er...no. The height of the medieval Inquisition was before the Reformation. You may be thinking of the Spanish Inquisition but this was an initiative of the Spanish government.

(I'll add this here...correct me if I am wrong...but as far as I know the "Holy Mother Church" has NEVER apologized to ANYBODY for that "Inquisition".Yes/No?)

Yes: John Paul II apologised at least three times publicly for it.

Catholicism is a false religion. They hide MUCH behind a false sense of "piety"and all their religious "finery". That is why we shouldn't join hands with them...even on the abortion issue. We should, as Bible-Believers stand against the murderous practice of abortion as well as other unbiblical things such as same-sex marriage,etc......but for sound Biblical reasons. We cannot yoke up with Rome, or Salt Lake City or any other unbiblical group and be right and pleasing to our God. We'll never see revival on any level if we compromise the plain teaching of and adherence to the truth. Nor will any preacher ever win any popularity contests by preaching or teaching the kind of stuff I just said."

More ill-informed rubbish I'm afraid. All the Catholics I know, including several priests, are Bible-believers. They may not have exactly the same interpretation of the Bible as you do, but then again I'll hazard a more than wild guess that many Baptists don't either; I believe you guys call it 'soul liberty'.

To close this...I know I sound very negative about the Catholic Church and their "religion" but that is because I honestly do believe that their system of belief is a false system that is misleading millions into an unending eternity in the Lake of Fire. It is no more Biblical than Islam, Hinduism, Buddhism, Mormonism or JW's or any of the countless other isms and schisms in our day. In this opinion and belief I confess to being immovably dogmatic.

Bro.Greg :type:

Then I'll pray that God will enlighten you further.