Catholics Come Home

[DHK]

>The COC, the J.W., The Mormon's, the SDA are all cults.

Is being a cult different from teaching a new god?

In some cases a different God; in other cases a different WAY to God.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

In a narrow sense, that is true. So tell me, EWF, why do you think the apostles used so much ink telling us about baptism, the Eucharist and other sacraments? The Great Commission wouldn’t have included a command to baptize unless Jesus meant it. He didn’t say, “Go make disciples and teach them everything I have commanded you. And, by the way, it might be good idea to baptize them as well. But if you don’t, no big deal, I will take them to Heaven anyway.”

Although Jesus said nothing like that, it is the logical conclusion you must draw unless you believe in the salvific effect of baptism. So my question, why did the apostles use so much ink in telling up about the sacraments in the New Testament if they are only optional?

I really dont care Z....not to be flippant but its above my pay grade....let the know it all theologians & the teachers of the law debate that. I for one am grateful for just the saving grace I have received that has totally rearranged my life & made me a child of God vs Child of The Evil One. For that alone, brother....I am grateful every day! :jesus::thumbs:

Also, do you seriously believe that a sinners confession,in a box essentially with a man/priest hearing/forgiving your sin's (thus interceding between the sinner & God) is in fact handed down by Christ & biblical?

 

[Zenas]

I for one am grateful for just the saving grace I have received that has totally rearranged my life & made me a child of God vs Child of The Evil One. For that alone, brother....I am grateful every day! :jesus::thumbs:

Amen! We can sure agree on that!

 

[Thinkingstuff]

Circumcision has nothing to do with baptism; nothing to do with this passage; and is a complete red herring. (It leaves out all women believers doesn't it?)...Again, baptism has nothing to do with circumcision, or vice-versa.

Lets look at Paul's letter to the Colossians again.

9 For in Christ all the fullness of the Deity lives in bodily form, 10 and you have been given fullness in Christ, who is the head over every power and authority. 11 In him you were also circumcised, in the putting off of the sinful nature,[a] not with a circumcision done by the hands of men but with the circumcision done by Christ, 12 having been buried with him in baptism and raised with him through your faith in the power of God, who raised him from the dead.

Clearly in this verse the Circumcision done by Christ is the Baptism which buries us with him and raises us back to life. BTW women can be baptized. It is their covenant seal as well.

You won't find those teachings in the epistles. Here is what it says:

Being justified by faith, we have peace with God (Rom.5:1)

For by grace are ye save through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, not of works lest any man should boast. (Eph.2:8,9)
--Salvation is by faith alone.

So according to you repentance is not required to be saved? IE... A person can have faith and not repent of his previous life style by which he is condemned and live anyway he chose because he believes something? I mean why then would John the baptist preach repentance? Why would Jesus teach

From that time on Jesus began to preach, “Repent, for the kingdom of heaven is near.”

Or why would Jesus denounce people because they did not repent?

Then Jesus began to denounce the cities in which most of his miracles had been performed, because they did not repent

Why would jesus say to the pharisees

For John came to you to show you the way of righteousness, and you did not believe him, but the tax collectors and the prostitutes did. And even after you saw this, you did not repent and believe him.

Why would Jesus instruct his disciples to

They went out and preached that people should repent.

Why would Jesus say of himself

I have not come to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance.”

and why does scripture say this in regard to salvation

and repentance and forgiveness of sins will be preached in his name to all nations, beginning at Jerusalem

or to show it in conjunction with salvation it says

When they heard this, they had no further objections and praised God, saying, “So then, God has granted even the Gentiles repentance unto life.”

Also we find

I have declared to both Jews and Greeks that they must turn to God in repentance and have faith in our Lord Jesus.

That not only faith is required but repentance as well for salvation.

Are you going to deny that the RCC teaches that baptism is essential to salvation?

No. But I'm also not saying Baptism = Salvation. Baptism is necissary as is faith and repentance.

If you are trusting in baptism to get you to heaven you will go to hell.

I trust in Jesus. He just wants me to respond to him in repentance, faith, and baptism.

No one can receive Christ through baptism.

That is not what the scriptures teach.

The COC, the J.W., The Mormon's, the SDA are all cults. Yes, they have a different understanding of Scripture--an understanding that almost no one on this board is willing to accept. It is not just me. Who else is going to accept their cultish understanding of Scripture?

Ah. but you fail to mention the Presbyterians disagree with you, Lutherans disagree with you, Anglicans disagree with you, Dutch reformed Calvinist disagree with you. And many other Non "Cults" though I dare say not many would say CoC is a cult. I fear Westboro baptist may fall into the Catagory of Cult.

Take any one of those verses that you listed. You cannot properly exegete them to show that they teach baptismal regeneration.

Actually I can which is why I listed them. You don't think I just picked them out of the air do you?

And have you questioned:
the worship of Mary, the perpetual virginity of Mary, the immaculate conception of Mary, the assumption of Mary, purgatory, indulgences, limbo, the authority of a priest to forgive sins, transubstantiation, penance, praying to the dead, idolatry, etc.

Yes and these Items were my biggest issues to get through. I didn't convert haphazardly. I reseached these Items as well and I came to understand each of these in their proper context and understanding.

Yes, I have a library of over 2,000 books. I already acknowledged to you that I have read many books.

See no different.

Thank you.

No problem. I try to make it easy to understand.

 

[DHK]

Lets look at Paul's letter to the Colossians again. Clearly in this verse the Circumcision done by Christ is the Baptism which buries us with him and raises us back to life. BTW women can be baptized. It is their covenant seal as well.

Where does it say circumcision is baptism? You are dreaming. In the passage in Col. circumcision is one topic, and then baptism is another topic which Paul passes on to.

So according to you repentance is not required to be saved?

I note the context and the books that you found your proof-texts in. How many of them were in the epistles?

IE... A person can have faith and not repent of his previous life style by which he is condemned and live anyway he chose because he believes something? I mean why then would John the baptist preach repentance?

He would not baptize anyone who had not first repented. Bring forth fruits of repentance, he said. But that was his ministry and message. He was an OT prophet, a forerunner of Jesus Christ.

Why would Jesus teach Or why would Jesus denounce people because they did not repent? Why would jesus say to the pharisees Why would Jesus instruct his disciples to Why would Jesus say of himself and why does scripture say this in regard to salvation or to show it in conjunction with salvation it says Also we find That not only faith is required but repentance as well for salvation.

Jesus told people to repent because that is what they needed to do: Repent.

No. But I'm also not saying Baptism = Salvation. Baptism is necissary as is faith and repentance.

And that is not what the Bible teaches. A message like that sends people to hell. It tramples on the blood of Christ. It does spite to his blood. It is a message to Jesus that "Ha Ha Jesus your blood was not good enough for me; wasn't sufficient to cover my sins; I have come to help you with my baptism." That is the blasphemy that you teach. You don't really believe that Christ died for your sins. You believe that baptism has to pay a part of the price of the penalty of your sins, for you make baptism necessary for salvation. But Jesus said: "IT IS FINISHED," meaning all the work of salvation was done on the cross. He doesn't need your help in baptism. You have blasphemed the name and the work of Christ.

I trust in Jesus. He just wants me to respond to him in repentance, faith, and baptism.

You are not trusting in Christ alone. You are trusting in your baptism. Water does not save. You belief is no different than the Hindus.

That is not what the scriptures teach.

So you don't believe John 14:6?
Again, I repeat: No one can receive Jesus through baptism.
Salvation is through Christ alone. That is what the Scriptures teach.

Ah. but you fail to mention the Presbyterians disagree with you, Lutherans disagree with you, Anglicans disagree with you, Dutch reformed Calvinist disagree with you. And many other Non "Cults" though I dare say not many would say CoC is a cult. I fear Westboro baptist may fall into the Catagory of Cult.

I am not in a popularity contest. I am here to proclaim the truth of the gospel--a message you apparently don't believe. What does the Bible say about your message:

(Gal 1:8) But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.

Actually I can which is why I listed them. You don't think I just picked them out of the air do you?

Any knowledgeable Baptist on this board can show you that those verses do not teach baptismal regeneration. The question is: Will you listen to them?

Yes and these Items were my biggest issues to get through. I didn't convert haphazardly. I reseached these Items as well and I came to understand each of these in their proper context and understanding.

Start a thread on each one of them. See how far you get. Each one of them will get thoroughly refuted and demolished. There is no hint of anyone of them having an ounce of Biblical authority. There is no Scripture to back any one of them up. They are myths, man-made doctrines.

See no different.

No different than what? I have collection of books written by Godly men who comment on the Scripture. I can draw wisdom from Godly men in the past. You draw philosophy from the ungodly. I choose my resources carefully.