Solascriptura; after looking at my post I realize that I didn't do a good job of getting my message across: what I meant was that I agree with the Jewish mentality that xmas and easter are pagan (I worship at a Messianic Jewish synagogue) and that the church probably should avoid attempts at evangelizing the Jews (at least by targeting them). Why? Because I believe that "churchianity" mis-represents the Messiah Yeshua and his teachings. So in essence, the church sometimes does more harm than good. Paul said to make them jealous; we are not likely to make them jealous acting like pagans. What makes them jealous? keeping Torah, keeping the Feasts, using the name Yeshua (just to name a few). While I have a deep respect and love for the Jewish people, (I wouldn't worship with them if I didn't) they are not like other cultures, especially with regard to religion. To make matters even more confusing, there are differences between Reformed, Conservative and Orthodox Jews which add to the difficulty of witnessing. Bottom line: the Jews pay attention to our walk more than our talk.
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Catholics reject evangelization of Jews
- Thread starter Dualhunter
- Start date
I am comfortable with the Majesterium. I think the Boston Globe article skewed what the article says. But, the article also has a lot of double-talk, enough to eliminate the good that could be learned.This is primarily directed to the Catholics: How does this statement by the Catholic church affect your view of the infallibility of the Majesterium?
The Conference's letter is not binding on Catholics and seriously, the likelihood that Rome would approve it is nil.
The fact is, the Jew's covenant with God has been fulfilled through Jesus. They need Him.
Dualhunter
New Member
I am comfortable with the Majesterium. I think the Boston Globe article skewed what the article says. But, the article also has a lot of double-talk, enough to eliminate the good that could be learned.Originally posted by Astralis:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />
This is primarily directed to the Catholics: How does this statement by the Catholic church affect your view of the infallibility of the Majesterium?
The Conference's letter is not binding on Catholics and seriously, the likelihood that Rome would approve it is nil.
The fact is, the Jew's covenant with God has been fulfilled through Jesus. They need Him.</font>[/QUOTE]Read the letter on the Conference's own website, feel free to ignore the one from the Boston globe. Also notice that they are claiming that Vatican II documents and the current Pope agree with them. You yourself said that the Jews need Jesus, the American bishops have denied it. You know that what they are saying is not true, thus they are either deceived or delibrately lying, either way they cannot be infallible and they have shown that it would not be wise to trust in them.
I read it.
Like I said, it's full of double-talk. There are some things that were cleared up but some other things where I had to stop and think it can't be right.
Check out this article: http://www.catholicexchange.com/vm/index.asp?vm_id=1&art_id=15015
[ August 19, 2002, 07:57 PM: Message edited by: Astralis ]
Like I said, it's full of double-talk. There are some things that were cleared up but some other things where I had to stop and think it can't be right.
Check out this article: http://www.catholicexchange.com/vm/index.asp?vm_id=1&art_id=15015
[ August 19, 2002, 07:57 PM: Message edited by: Astralis ]
This raises more questions in my mind. What was the covenant of the OT? Was it by faith or was it by works? If God's covenant with the Jews is still in effect, then they don't need Jesus Christ?Originally posted by peaches-ohio:
I went to a catholic college. They told us that God's covenant with the Jews was still in effect from the old testament, thus they were exempt and we should not try to convert them.
L
LaRae
Guest
CARDINAL ISSUES CLARIFICATION ON EVANGELIZATION OF JEWS
BALTIMORE, Aug 20, 02 (CWNews.com) -- Cardinal William Keeler of Baltimore has issued a statement of clarification regarding a document released last week on Catholic-Jewish relations. The cardinal's statement emphasized that the document, released by a joint committee of Catholics and Jews, was a working document rather than an authoritative statement of belief.
The August 12 statement, entitled Reflections on Covenant and Mission, said that "campaigns that target Jews for conversion to Christianity are no longer theologically acceptable in the Catholic Church." The document, put forward by a working committee sponsored by the US bishops' conference and the Jewish Anti-Defamation League, provoked a very sharp reaction from many Catholics, who argued that it clashed directly with previous statements of defined Church doctrine.
Cardinal Keeler, who co-chaired the committee that produced the document, remarked that the statement "does not represent a formal position taken by the United States Conference of Catholic Bishops or the Bishops' Committee for Ecumenical and Inter-religious Affairs. The purpose of publicly issuing the considerations which it contains is to encourage serious reflection on these matters by Jews and Catholics in the US."
The cardinal's statement continued: "These considerations provide a basis for discussing both the similarities and the significant differences between the Christian and Jewish understandings of the call given by the one God to both peoples."
BALTIMORE, Aug 20, 02 (CWNews.com) -- Cardinal William Keeler of Baltimore has issued a statement of clarification regarding a document released last week on Catholic-Jewish relations. The cardinal's statement emphasized that the document, released by a joint committee of Catholics and Jews, was a working document rather than an authoritative statement of belief.
The August 12 statement, entitled Reflections on Covenant and Mission, said that "campaigns that target Jews for conversion to Christianity are no longer theologically acceptable in the Catholic Church." The document, put forward by a working committee sponsored by the US bishops' conference and the Jewish Anti-Defamation League, provoked a very sharp reaction from many Catholics, who argued that it clashed directly with previous statements of defined Church doctrine.
Cardinal Keeler, who co-chaired the committee that produced the document, remarked that the statement "does not represent a formal position taken by the United States Conference of Catholic Bishops or the Bishops' Committee for Ecumenical and Inter-religious Affairs. The purpose of publicly issuing the considerations which it contains is to encourage serious reflection on these matters by Jews and Catholics in the US."
The cardinal's statement continued: "These considerations provide a basis for discussing both the similarities and the significant differences between the Christian and Jewish understandings of the call given by the one God to both peoples."
Dualhunter
New Member
In other words, they screwed up and are unwilling to admit it and so they resort to their double-talk to try and confuse everybody.
L
LaRae
Guest
Dual,
Your charity is amazing.
LaRae
Your charity is amazing.
LaRae
Dualhunter
New Member
Your bishops are people pleasers, first they say all the right things to make the Jews happy and then they change their minds to please the Catholics who recognized their previous statement as completely wrong and they are unable to simply admit that they were completely wrong.
L
LaRae
Guest
Dual,
That's merely your opinion, you are putting yourself in the position of judging their intentions when you have no real way to know the whole story.
If you continually approach something assuming it's bad then you will never see any good in it.
Have you never heard of accepting something in good faith?
LaRae
That's merely your opinion, you are putting yourself in the position of judging their intentions when you have no real way to know the whole story.
If you continually approach something assuming it's bad then you will never see any good in it.
Have you never heard of accepting something in good faith?
LaRae
Dualhunter
New Member
Can lies be accepted in good faith? To even be considering saying that the Jews don't need to be evangelized strongly suggests that they have no idea about the Gospel of truth is.
L
LaRae
Guest
Dual,
From my understanding of the original document and after discussing it elsewhere.....there is a difference in targeting groups for conversion and showing by actions what your Church teaches or if the situation arises, discussing what the Church teaches.
In this day and age most Catholics do not try to evangelize in the sense most other denominations understand this to be....you rarely ever hear of Catholics going door to door etc.
LaRae
From my understanding of the original document and after discussing it elsewhere.....there is a difference in targeting groups for conversion and showing by actions what your Church teaches or if the situation arises, discussing what the Church teaches.
In this day and age most Catholics do not try to evangelize in the sense most other denominations understand this to be....you rarely ever hear of Catholics going door to door etc.
LaRae
Dualhunter
New Member
I've never heard of Catholics today going out and preaching the Gospel either.Originally posted by LaRae:
Dual,
From my understanding of the original document and after discussing it elsewhere.....there is a difference in targeting groups for conversion and showing by actions what your Church teaches or if the situation arises, discussing what the Church teaches.
In this day and age most Catholics do not try to evangelize in the sense most other denominations understand this to be....you rarely ever hear of Catholics going door to door etc.
LaRae
The document is not dealing with evangelism methods, but whether it is right to evangelize Jews at all. They are suggesting that the Jews can be saved just by being reasonbly good Jews and thus do not need to convert whether it be because somebody told them the Gospel or because somebody showed them the love of Christ. This strongly suggests that they don't know what they're talking about.
L
LaRae
Guest
There are some Catholics who go door to door but it's not like with other groups ...JW's etc.
You don't understand Catholic teaching which is why you don't understand how to read the document. It is written from a Catholic perspective.
ALL Salvation comes thru the Church. If you are saved you are saved thru the Church, irregardless if you are Catholic or Baptist etc. The Church has addressed the issue of salvation with Jews in the Catechism.
So based on the Church's teaching about Jews and Salvation this is why the Church says we are not to "target" Jews. You and I both know there are groups out there who set out to deliberately target JW's or Catholics or Mormons to bring them out of their Churches.
At the end of the day everyone is at the mercy of God.
LaRae
You don't understand Catholic teaching which is why you don't understand how to read the document. It is written from a Catholic perspective.
ALL Salvation comes thru the Church. If you are saved you are saved thru the Church, irregardless if you are Catholic or Baptist etc. The Church has addressed the issue of salvation with Jews in the Catechism.
So based on the Church's teaching about Jews and Salvation this is why the Church says we are not to "target" Jews. You and I both know there are groups out there who set out to deliberately target JW's or Catholics or Mormons to bring them out of their Churches.
At the end of the day everyone is at the mercy of God.
LaRae
Dualhunter,I've never heard of Catholics today going out and preaching the Gospel either.
This is an ignorant statement. Because people may not do things like you don't assume they don't evangelize.
It was St. Francis who said "Preach the gospel everywhere. Use words if you have to".
This is a problem with Roman Catholics. They don't know what the gospel is. Do you?Originally posted by Astralis:
It was St. Francis who said "Preach the gospel everywhere. Use words if you have to".
L
LaRae
Guest
Nimrod,
That's a fairly arrogant statment for you to make. Who are you to judge Catholics? I can assure you Catholics are quite clear on understanding the Gospel.
You can disagree if you want, think what you like but it is only your opinion.
LaRae
That's a fairly arrogant statment for you to make. Who are you to judge Catholics? I can assure you Catholics are quite clear on understanding the Gospel.
You can disagree if you want, think what you like but it is only your opinion.
LaRae
Arrogant Nimrod. You don't display any Christian charity by judging - especially baseless judging. Do you know the Gospel?This is a problem with Roman Catholics. They don't know what the gospel is. Do you?