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Celebrating the Birthday (1/19) of a True American Hero

Discussion in 'History Forum' started by Dr. Bob, Jan 19, 2004.

  1. LadyEagle

    LadyEagle <b>Moderator</b> <img src =/israel.gif>

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    Amen! And for the TRUTH ABOUT THE CONFEDERATE FLAG, READ HERE:

    http://www.chuckbaldwinlive.com/rebel_flag.html


    [​IMG]

    Forgive some of these people, dear Lord, they know not what they say. [​IMG]
     
  2. ChurchBoy

    ChurchBoy New Member

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    Another CSA debate. :rolleyes: We can't have too many of those, can we?
     
  3. KenH

    KenH Well-Known Member

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    Does the Union care to surrender now? It's not too late. [​IMG]
     
  4. Dr. Bob

    Dr. Bob Administrator
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    The USA already lost. Sad that the myth of Northern victory continues. Oh, well.
     
  5. Salty

    Salty 20,000 Posts Club
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    Dr Bob, Me thinks you have an autograph picture of Daisy Moses hanging right over your shotgun in the parlor!!! :D
     
  6. fromtheright

    fromtheright <img src =/2844.JPG>

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    For myself, I believe that George Mason was absolutely prescient in his statement to the Constitutional Convention, from Madison's notes:

     
  7. rsr

    rsr <b> 7,000 posts club</b>
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    Sounds much like Washington and (gasp) Lincoln and — in his honest moments, Jefferson.
     
  8. fromtheright

    fromtheright <img src =/2844.JPG>

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    rsr,

    Interesting. I never thought about the comparison to Jefferson but the passage could almost be lifted straight from his Notes on the State of Virginia and as I recall he did in fact make an effort to outlaw it in Virginia, didn't he?
     
  9. rsr

    rsr <b> 7,000 posts club</b>
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    Not that I know of. He wrote letters condemning the practice (and warning of its dire effects) but never — so far as I can tell — lifted a finger to support abolition.

    His admirers say he didn't take public action because he thought it would do more harm than good.

    Detractors say he was a pure and simple hypocrite and political opportunist unwilling to take a stand that would have cost him political capital.

    FWIW, I think he was deeply conflicted. He never was able to reconcile his role as the author of the Declaration — and a theoretical belief in equality — with his practical enjoyment with being at the top of the societal system. In addition, he was always scraping for money, and his slaves constituted a huge amount of his wealth.

    Jefferson is the great Rorschach test of American politics: Whatever you already believe, you can see in him.
     
  10. rsr

    rsr <b> 7,000 posts club</b>
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    I wish to correct an earlier statement. I said Jefferson did not lift a finger to abolish slavery. That is not strictly true. He did draft a plan for the Northwest Territories that would prohibit slavery a number of years later. Realistically, had slavery been introduced, would it have been abolished anytime soon?

    In addition, as Gary Wills has pointed out, Jefferson and his party had a vested interest in slavery because of the three-fifths provision of the Constitution. Without that provision, John Adams would have had a second term because the states Jefferson carried would not have had enough electoral votes to take him to the White House.
     
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