Ceremonial vs Moral Laws

[vooks]

These words have been flagrantly used here and I feel we should discuss their exact meaning. There is no biblical definition of the same nor usage. You won't find 'moral' nor 'ceremonial' in one sentence with 'law'. So I gather they are concepts existing in scriptures like trinity only given a new name. Or they are simply read into the Word of God to push sectarian agenda.

Questions
1. What is a MORAL Law?
2. What is a CEREMONIAL Law?
3. What is the biblical criteria for classifying any law as either moral or ceremonial?



Cc One Baptist, BobRyan

 

[BobRyan]

"what matters is keeping the Commandments of God" 1 Cor 7:19 stated in a contrast between the Commandments of God - (moral law) and the ceremonial example of "circumcision" in that case.

And the question came up here as well -- interesting how the "Baptist Confession of Faith" addressed that question.

D.L. Moody is not the only one to claim that the TEN Commandments are given to mankind in Eden and still binding on the saints today.

Baptist Confession of Faith - section 19 almost identical to the Westminster section 19 quoted above.

Notice how they both fit that 7 point summary already posted on page 1?

[FONT=&quot]Baptist Confession of Faith Section 19 link[/FONT]


Section 19:

C.H. Spurgeon's edition of the "Baptist Confession of Faith" -- [FONT=&quot]CH Spurgeon[/FONT][FONT=&quot]

[/FONT][FONT=&quot]

“The Perpetuity of the Law of God”
[/FONT][FONT=&quot]
[/FONT]Very great mistakes have been made about the law. Not long ago there were those about us who affirmed that the law is utterly abrogated and abolished, and they openly taught that believers were not bound to make the moral law the rule of their lives. What would have been sin in other men they counted to be no sin in themselves. From such Antinomianism as that may God deliver us. We are not under the law as the method of salvation, but we delight to see the law in the hand of Christ, and desire to obey the Lord in all things. Others have been met with who have taught that Jesus mitigated and softened down the law, and they have in effect said that the perfect law of God was too hard for imperfect beings, and therefore God has given us a milder and easier rule. These tread dangerously upon the verge of terrible error, although we believe that they are little aware of it.

Section 19 of the "Baptist Confession of Faith" .

Section 19
. The Law of God

• God gave to Adam a law of universal obedience which was written in his heart, and He gave him very specific instruction about not eating the fruit of the tree of knowledge of good and evil. By this Adam and all his descendants were bound to personal, total, exact, and perpetual obedience, being promised life upon the fulfilling of the law, and threatened with death upon the breach of it. At the same time Adam was endued with power and ability to keep it.

• The same law that was first written in the heart of man continued to be a perfect rule of righteousness after the Fall, and was delivered by God upon Mount Sinai in the TEN COMMANDMENTS, and written in two tables, the first four containing our duty towards God, and the other six, our duty to man.

• Besides this law, commonly called the moral law, God was pleased do give the people of Israel ceremonial laws containing several typical ordinances. These ordinances were partly about their worship, and in them Christ was prefigured along with His attributes and qualities, His actions, His sufferings and His benefits. These ordinances also gave instructions about different moral duties. All of these ceremonial laws were appointed only until the time of reformation, when Jesus Christ the true Messiah and the only lawgiver, Who was furnished with power from the Father for this end, cancelled them and took them away.

• To the people of Israel He also gave sundry judicial laws which expired when they ceased to be a nation. These are not binding on anyone now by virtue of their being part of the laws of that nation, but their general equity continue to be applicable in modern times.

The moral law ever binds to obedience everyone, justified people as well as others, and not only out of regard for the matter contained in it, but also out of respect for the authority of God the Creator, Who gave the law. Nor does Christ in the Gospel dissolve this law in any way, but He considerably strengthens our obligation to obey it __________________

Originally Posted by Baptist Confession of Faith

[FONT=&quot]Section 22.[/FONT][FONT=&quot]


[/FONT][FONT=&quot]Point 7[/FONT][FONT=&quot]

[/FONT][FONT=&quot]7. As it is the law of nature that in general a proportion of time, by God's appointment, should be set apart for the worship of God, so He has given in His Word a positive, moral and perpetual commandment, binding upon all men, in all ages to this effect. He has particularly appointed one day in seven for a Sabbath to be kept holy for Him. From the beginning of the world to the resurrection of Christ this was the last day of the week, and from the resurrection of Christ it was changed to the first day of the week and called the Lord's Day. This is to be continued until the end of the world as the Christian Sabbath, the observation of the last day of the week having been abolished.[/FONT]
​

__________________

 

[vooks]

"what matters is keeping the Commandments of God" 1 Cor 7:19 stated in a contrast between the Commandments of God - (moral law) and the ceremonial example of "circumcision" in that case.
.

BobRyan,
We are trying to determine what are moral and what are ceremonial laws and here you are declaring the Commandments of God as 'moral'. Next I will ask what are 'commandments' and you will take me in circles as you have always done.

Could you be unambiguous for once?

 

[vooks]

Am still waiting for a kindly brother who will lead me to the moral laws while steering clear of ceremonial. Looks like I will wait forever, or the distinction is sectarian and arbitrary

 

[Scarlett O.]

Am still waiting for a kindly brother who will lead me to the moral laws while steering clear of ceremonial. Looks like I will wait forever, or the distinction is sectarian and arbitrary

I don't think these distinctions are arbitrary. You are right, they certainly aren't overt or outlined in the Bible.

I've explained it to students before that what people call moral law has to do with laws that require people to recognize the nature of God and to imitate it. God doesn't lie - OK then, we won't either. He doesn't murder or covet or abandon those He loves. Let's incorporate those standards of holiness into our own existence. God loves justice so we should love it and practice it. These laws point to God's nature as our standard.

And likewise, ceremonial law - to me - was about God's plan and instructions for His people to follow for restoration's sake. You sin - you sacrifice. You are "unclean" - there is a prescriptive procedure to follow. These laws - while also moral, I suppose - point to man's shortcomings and his inability to be holy as God is holy and the plan for covering that gap.

 

[vooks]

I don't think these distinctions are arbitrary. You are right, they certainly aren't overt or outlined in the Bible.

I've explained it to students before that what people call moral law has to do with laws that require people to recognize the nature of God and to imitate it. God doesn't lie - OK then, we won't either. He doesn't murder or covet or abandon those He loves. Let's incorporate those standards of holiness into our own existence. God loves justice so we should love it and practice it. These laws point to God's nature as our standard.

And likewise, ceremonial law - to me - was about God's plan and instructions for His people to follow for restoration's sake. You sin - you sacrifice. You are "unclean" - there is a prescriptive procedure to follow. These laws - while also moral, I suppose - point to man's shortcomings and his inability to be holy as God is holy and the plan for covering that gap.

Interesting
So what do you make of sabbath and sabbath offerings?
Numbers 28:9-10 King James Version (KJV)
9 And on the sabbath day two lambs of the first year without spot, and two tenth deals of flour for a meat offering, mingled with oil, and the drink offering thereof:
10 This is the burnt offering of every sabbath, beside the continual burnt offering, and his drink offering.
Is it for 'restoration sake' or done inorder to 'recognize the nature of God'?


And what do you make of non-sin/uncleanliness sacrifices?

 

[kyredneck]

Agape is the essence of the moral law which we all will be judged by in the end:

18 And a certain ruler asked him, saying, Good Teacher, what shall I do to inherit eternal life?
20 Thou knowest the commandments, Do not commit adultery, Do not kill, Do not steal, Do not bear false witness, Honor thy father and mother. Lu 18

6 who will render to every man according to his works:
7 to them that by patience in well-doing seek for glory and honor and incorruption, eternal life: Ro 2

...and which all His saints are inclined to, from agape, due to the heart change of the heavenly birth:

13 for not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified:
14 (for when Gentiles that have not the law do by nature the things of the law, these, not having the law, are the law unto themselves;
15 in that they show the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience bearing witness therewith, and their thoughts one with another accusing or else excusing them); Ro 2

8 Owe no man anything, save to love one another: for he that loveth his neighbor hath fulfilled the law.
9 For this, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not covet, and if there be any other commandment, it is summed up in this word, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbor as thyself.
10 Love worketh no ill to his neighbor: love therefore is the fulfilment of the law. Ro 13

12 All things therefore whatsoever ye would that men should do unto you, even so do ye also unto them: for this is the law and the prophets. Mt 7

 

[vooks]

Agape is the essence of the moral law which we all will be judged by in the end:

18 And a certain ruler asked him, saying, Good Teacher, what shall I do to inherit eternal life?
20 Thou knowest the commandments, Do not commit adultery, Do not kill, Do not steal, Do not bear false witness, Honor thy father and mother. Lu 18

6 who will render to every man according to his works:
7 to them that by patience in well-doing seek for glory and honor and incorruption, eternal life: Ro 2

...and which all His saints are inclined to, from agape, due to the heart change of the heavenly birth:

13 for not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified:
14 (for when Gentiles that have not the law do by nature the things of the law, these, not having the law, are the law unto themselves;
15 in that they show the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience bearing witness therewith, and their thoughts one with another accusing or else excusing them); Ro 2

8 Owe no man anything, save to love one another: for he that loveth his neighbor hath fulfilled the law.
9 For this, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not covet, and if there be any other commandment, it is summed up in this word, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbor as thyself.
10 Love worketh no ill to his neighbor: love therefore is the fulfilment of the law. Ro 13

12 All things therefore whatsoever ye would that men should do unto you, even so do ye also unto them: for this is the law and the prophets. Mt 7

Am afraid your answer is a tad too cryptic for me. How does one judge the 'agape essence' of a Law? And what is the essence of other non-moral laws?

 

[Scarlett O.]

Interesting
So what do you make of sabbath and sabbath offerings?
Numbers 28:9-10 King James Version (KJV)
9 And on the sabbath day two lambs of the first year without spot, and two tenth deals of flour for a meat offering, mingled with oil, and the drink offering thereof:
10 This is the burnt offering of every sabbath, beside the continual burnt offering, and his drink offering.
Is it for 'restoration sake' or done inorder to 'recognize the nature of God'?

I think (my opinion) that those offerings in verses 9-10 are the same as the offerings in the rest of the chapter. Daily offerings, Sabbath, monthly, and festivity offerings were all demanded and explained in that chapter.

Why? Again, just my opinion. In the beginning of that chapter, God said three times that these things were "sweet aromas" to Him. I understand sweet aroma that to mean He accepted His people when they did these things.

Jesus' death was a "sweet aroma" to God. Ergo these things are a part of a ceremonial restoration.

And what do you make of non-sin/uncleanliness sacrifices?

You mean like women who had babies and men with discharges and those sacrifices?

I always thought that those were reminders of our flesh and its frailties, mortality, insufficiencies, and the our flesh's inability to save or redeem. They definitely aren't sinful things and are just a part of the human existence that's messy.

Maybe God just wanted them to have a constant reminder that the flesh is weak and will fail and that He is more interested in our hearts and minds.

Maybe someone else has an answer for this one.

 

[kyredneck]

Am afraid your answer is a tad too cryptic for me.

8 Owe no man anything, save to love one another: for he that loveth his neighbor hath fulfilled the law.
9 For this, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not covet, and if there be any other commandment, it is summed up in this word, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbor as thyself.
10 Love worketh no ill to his neighbor: love therefore is the fulfilment of the law. Ro 13

If that's 'too cryptic' for you then I don't know what else to say.

 

[kyredneck]

….the doers of the law shall be justified Ro 2:13

…by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified… Ro 3:20

Discern the contrast between these two and you will know the difference between ceremonial and moral law.

 

[vooks]

I think (my opinion) that those offerings in verses 9-10 are the same as the offerings in the rest of the chapter. Daily offerings, Sabbath, monthly, and festivity offerings were all demanded and explained in that chapter.

Why? Again, just my opinion. In the beginning of that chapter, God said three times that these things were "sweet aromas" to Him. I understand sweet aroma that to mean He accepted His people when they did these things.

Jesus' death was a "sweet aroma" to God. Ergo these things are a part of a ceremonial restoration.

Yes, He says they are 'sweet aroma', just as is offerings/giving in NT- Philipians 4:18

Back to your definition of moral laws, 'laws requiring people to realize the nature of God and imitate it'.

Let's look at sabbath and Passover. Both appear too meet your definition. How?
1. Both acknowledge God's power/omnipotence - He created everything and then rested,He delivered with a powerful hand.
2. Both were required of Israel. One can say keeping either is imitating what God did

You mean like women who had babies and men with discharges and those sacrifices?

I always thought that those were reminders of our flesh and its frailties, mortality, insufficiencies, and the our flesh's inability to save or redeem. They definitely aren't sinful things and are just a part of the human existence that's messy.

Maybe God just wanted them to have a constant reminder that the flesh is weak and will fail and that He is more interested in our hearts and minds.

Maybe someone else has an answer for this one.

Am sorry I did not explain. I meant non-sin and non-uncleanliness sacrifices such as the ones commanded for sabbath..

I agree with you uncleanliness sacrifices may point to our frailty.

 

[vooks]

….the doers of the law shall be justified Ro 2:13

…by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified… Ro 3:20

Discern the contrast between these two and you will know the difference between ceremonial and moral law.

If you have discerned between these, why don't you share with us?
What are 'works of the law'?

Galatians 3:10-11 (KJV)
For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them. 11 But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is evident: for, The just shall live by faith

This verse defines 'works of the law'. They are EVERYTHING written in the book of the Law

 

[kyredneck]

The one comes naturally from the regenerate heart, the other from intent to earn favor.

 

[vooks]

The one comes naturally from the regenerate heart, the other from intent to earn favor.

circumcision. Where would you place it?

 

[kyredneck]

29 but he is a Jew who is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God. Ro 2

The circumcision that matters is that which is done without hands.

 

[kyredneck]

The moral law is spiritual, rooted in agape. The ceremonial law is by the letter, and is pregnant with wonderful marvelous types that can make the heart of the believer soar like a hawk.

 

[vooks]

The moral law is spiritual, rooted in agape. The ceremonial law is by the letter, and is pregnant with wonderful marvelous types that can make the heart of the believer soar like a hawk.

I have scriptures here with me, how would I go about identifying moral from other laws?

 

[kyredneck]

Why would you want to?:

..... ye are not under law, but under grace. Ro 6:14

Is this too complicated for you?:

8 Owe no man anything, save to love one another: for he that loveth his neighbor hath fulfilled the law.
9 For this, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not covet, and if there be any other commandment, it is summed up in this word, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbor as thyself.
10 Love worketh no ill to his neighbor: love therefore is the fulfilment of the law. Ro 13

Or is it too simple for you?

 

[Robert William]

The moral law is spiritual, rooted in agape. The ceremonial law is by the letter, and is pregnant with wonderful marvelous types that can make the heart of the believer soar like a hawk.

I'm enjoying this thread, you are doing a great job.:thumbs:

I don't think vooks liked Rom 2:28-29, so I will post it again for him.

Rom 2:28 For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh:
Rom 2:29 But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.