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Changing RCC church law - or is it Bible law?

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L

LaGrange

Active Member
Salty said:
Evendietenly the RCC (vial the pope) is changing the church law

So, is RCC church law the same as Bible law
if they did change it - is the RCC saying they have been wrong?
Are the saying the Bible was wrong?
Hmmmmm

Pope Francis Just Changed Church Law On Forgiving Abortion. Here's How 9 Women Reacted.
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Hi Salty,
The second paragraph answers this. This is not a doctrinal change but a disciplinary change. This has to do with excommunication like I spoke about yesterday. If someone has an abortion they are still excommunicated but they do not have to go to the bishop to confess. You can go to the local priest. Now if the pope had said abortion was no longer a sin then you would have something but that’s not what he is saying. It’s kind of like Acts 15:20. Disciplinary rules can be changed. Another example is the requirement of celibacy for the priesthood. Celibacy is a disciplinary rule and could change.
 
Walter

Walter

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
LaGrange said:
Hi Salty,
The second paragraph answers this. This is not a doctrinal change but a disciplinary change. This has to do with excommunication like I spoke about yesterday. If someone has an abortion they are still excommunicated but they do not have to go to the bishop to confess. You can go to the local priest. Now if the pope had said abortion was no longer a sin then you would have something but that’s not what he is saying. It’s kind of like Acts 15:20. Disciplinary rules can be changed. Another example is the requirement of celibacy for the priesthood. Celibacy is a disciplinary rule and could change.
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Yes, celibacy in the Latin Rite could certainly change. It is only a discipline within the Latin Rite of the Catholic Church. Thousands of Easter Rite Catholic priests are married and has been the practice for centuries. Even married Anglican priest that convert to the Catholic faith are allowed to remain married even in the Latin Rite. Dogma are is entirely different than what you are inferring that has happened in the Catholic Church. Dogma never changes and has not since the beginning.

Now I hope this thread does not get shut down because Catholics try to correct your misconceptions and call it Catholic propaganda. It seems we walk a very fine line on the board when trying to present correct Catholic teaching. I usually don't start threads here because of the probability that I will be accused of proselytizing. I do participate when Catholic teaching is misunderstood.

On the other hand, I want to say that I have learned so much about Baptist belief while on this board and I'm able to discuss it with my Baptist friends much better than I could have as a Baptist and not participating on a forum such as this. I appreciate being allowed to remain here despite converting to the Catholic faith after joining the forum as a Baptist.
 
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L

LaGrange

Active Member
Walter said:
Yes, celibacy in the Latin Rite could certainly change. It is only a discipline within the Latin Rite of the Catholic Church. Thousands of Easter Rite Catholic priests are married and has been the practice for centuries. Even married Anglican priest that convert to the Catholic faith are allowed to remain married even in the Latin Rite. Dogma are is entirely different than what you are inferring that has happened in the Catholic Church. Dogma never changes and has not since the beginning.

Now I hope this thread does not get shut down because Catholics try to correct your misconceptions and call it Catholic propaganda. It seems we walk a very fine line on the board when trying to present correct Catholic teaching. I usually don't start threads here because of the probability that I will be accused of proselytizing. I do participate when Catholic teaching is misunderstood.

On the other hand, I want to say that I have learned so much about Baptist belief while on this board and I'm able to discuss it with my Baptist friends much better than I could have as a Baptist and not participating on a forum such as this. I appreciate being allowed to remain here despite converting to the Catholic faith after joining the forum as a Baptist.
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Hi Walter,

Congrats on your conversion! I had someone recently say to me that we changed our doctrine when we took away the requirement for abstinence from meat on fridays back in the 1960’s after Vatican II. This was a disciplinary rule and not a doctrine. By the way, this was a former Catholic that said this so do you think they knew their Faith very well? I don’t think so.
 
Walter

Walter

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
LaGrange said:
Hi Walter,

Congrats on your conversion! I had someone recently say to me that we changed our doctrine when we took away the requirement for abstinence from meat on fridays back in the 1960’s after Vatican II. This was a disciplinary rule and not a doctrine. By the way, this was a former Catholic that said this so do you think they knew their Faith very well? I don’t think so.
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There are so many poorly catechized 'cultural Catholics' that they become easily convinced by other faiths that the Catholic Church is built on 'traditions of men' and non-scriptural. I always believed while being brought up as a Baptist that Catholics did not really have faith in Christ, were guilty of idoloty and worshipped the Virgin Mary and saints. I was challenged by my sister who had been a Baptist missionary and converted to the Catholic faith after finding that the 'usual objections' were not valid and that the Catholic Church was the Church that Christ founded upon Peter. I began reading about former Baptist and other evangelical pastors and evangelists that also became Catholic after earnest study of the Catechism. I will share my testimony with you sometime.

Since becoming Catholic, I have had a much closer walk with Jesus and my faith has only increased since my conversion.
 
L

LaGrange

Active Member
Walter said:
There are so many poorly catechized 'cultural Catholics' that they become easily convinced by other faiths that the Catholic Church is built on 'traditions of men' and non-scriptural. I always believed while being brought up as a Baptist that Catholics did not really have faith in Christ, were guilty of idoloty and worshipped the Virgin Mary and saints. I was challenged by my sister who had been a Baptist missionary and converted to the Catholic faith after finding that the 'usual objections' were not valid and that the Catholic Church was the Church that Christ founded upon Peter. I began reading about former Baptist and other evangelical pastors and evangelists that also became Catholic after earnest study of the Catechism. I will share my testimony with you sometime.

Since becoming Catholic, I have had a much closer walk with Jesus and my faith has only increased since my conversion.
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God bless you Walter. My favorite Baptist convert that had an impact on me is Tim Staples. He even stayed at my house one night! The one thing I like about converts to the Catholic Faith is that usually they don’t hate their former Faith. Tim thanks God for his upbringing and his Baptist faith. But when someone leaves the Catholic Church and becomes a Protestant, look out! They must be taught to hate the Catholic Church. I see so much prejudice. So many things are said that we believe that we don’t believe.
 
L

LaGrange

Active Member
Salty said:
Just came across this link: Catholic Vs Baptist Beliefs: (13 Major Differences To Know)

and on the other hand - many Catholics have become a Baptist.

https://www.theamericanconservative.com/from-catholic-to-baptist/
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Hi Salty,

Oh for sure this is true. Many Catholics leave and become Protestant. Almost 100% of them did not know there Faith very well. We’ve had two generations now that have not been taught the Faith like I was taught it. You would never convert a Catholic who knew their Faith. The only other reason for leaving the Catholic Church is that they wanted to anyway. They leave and then begin making excuses for leaving. The want a faith that doesn’t demand anything out of them. People generally know that many Catholics become Protestant but what people don’t know is that there are large numbers of Protestants that become Catholic. Many many preachers and teachers have converted.
 
Walter

Walter

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
I found this interesting. Not 'propaganda', just a persons take on why so many evangelical conversions to Catholicism.

 
37818

37818

Well-Known Member
Walter said:
I found this interesting. Not 'propaganda', just a persons take on why so many evangelical conversions to Catholicism.

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A few things.

He believes and drank the Protestant Catholic "Kool•aid."

He never knew the 27 books of the New Testament are the sole Apostolic authority handed down. That they were Holy Scriptures when they were written and it was many years later when the irregular churches claimed them.

He never knew the out of context interpretation for the "Eucharist" is about Jesus being the true Manna from Heaven. That coming and believing in Jesus is the eating and drinking His blood as He taught it. John 6:35-63.
 
Walter

Walter

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Salty said:
and other Catholics leave and become a Baptist!
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According to surveys, it is about is about the same number of evangelicals that become Catholic and Catholic become evangelicals. Still the Catholic Church is BY FAR the fastest growing Christian church in the world. Baptists are in decline, although there are some very large and growing churches, many are closing. Most Baptist churches in my area have two services each Sunday. This is to accommodate traditional worship and contemporary worship. Sadly 2/3 of the Baptist churches in my area have pews that are mostly empty at each service although the contemporary worship services are a bit better attended than the traditional.
 
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C

Cathode

Well-Known Member
Salty said:
Okay
But was the previous Procedural wrong? Why was it changed.?
But was Bible doctrine being changed?
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Apostolic power to forgive and retain sin wasn’t the issue, it was how it was to be administered.

Look at this for example:

“ As the Father sent me, so I now send you “ The Father sent Jesus out with the full authority to forgive sin, and Jesus sends the Apostles out with the same authority.

Again Jesus said, “Peace be with you! As the Father has sent me, so I am now sending you.”22 And with that he breathed on them and said, “Receive the Holy Spirit. 23 If you forgive anyone’s sins, their sins are forgiven; if you do not forgive them, they are not forgiven.”

So it’s the same power granted by God, but it was for a time reserved to the Bishop to administer in the serious case of abortion.
 
C

Cathode

Well-Known Member
37818 said:
A few things.

He believes and drank the Protestant Catholic "Kool•aid."

He never knew the 27 books of the New Testament are the sole Apostolic authority handed down. That they were Holy Scriptures when they were written and it was many years later when the irregular churches claimed them.
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The Bible didn’t hand itself down, or assemble itself, so it was never the sole authority in Christianity.

He never knew the out of context interpretation for the "Eucharist" is about Jesus being the true Manna from Heaven. That coming and believing in Jesus is the eating and drinking His blood as He taught it. John 6:35-63.
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If people believed Jesus words, they would eat Jesus flesh and drink his blood in Covenant at the Eucharist.

Jesus wanted to make Himself perfectly and completely present to all believers down the ages. To receive Him in Covenant body and soul and Divinity.

The Eucharistic Manna is gathered and eaten Daily at Mass just as the Old Manna in the desert was gathered daily.

Jesus Flesh is real food and His Blood is real drink.
 
37818

37818

Well-Known Member
Cathode said:
The Bible didn’t hand itself down, or assemble itself, so it was never the sole authority in Christianity.
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What we call the Old Testament was already in existence, Luke 24:44.
Cathode said:
If people believed Jesus words, they would eat Jesus flesh and drink his blood in Covenant at the Eucharist.
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When Jesus taught about Himself being the true Manna from Heaven He had not yet instituted His Remembrance. John 6:35-63. And that was not written until about 95 or so AD. And to claim it was about the Remembrance is contrary to its contexts.
 
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