Charity?

[menageriekeeper]

Well it wouldn't be my place to call someone else's pastor and complain about how they run their church now would it?

This particular lady comes very close to meeting the "widow" definition. The X was and is an abusive <discriptor that's not polite, I'm editing myself>, who is responsible for certain of the childrens expenses beyond just child support. Only he likes the power trip he gets from withholding the money until the very last second. He gives it just before he would get in trouble with the law. This means they often must do without necessities until he "gets around to it". He did this kind of stuff when they were married and worse, so this is no surprise.

I simply believe that churches who pride themselves on missions and giving could do a better job at serving their own members who are in need, without making it seem as though those members are a burden.

We as churches don't make missions giving a burden. When we gathered who knows how many supplies and sent to the gulf coast, we didn't consider it a burden. These things are considered a privledge! Why then is tending to the needs of our members considered a burden?

Why do you believe that "The individual needs to do something to try and improve their situation", without allowing for the possiblity that that individual may already be at their maximum potential?

Do you believe I'm enabling this family to remain poor by buying them groceries as I buy my own? Or by covering an expense occasionally?

These things may be possibilities in some cases, but where do we draw the line between help and enablement?

 

[bapmom]

MK,

I guess what I meant by calling her pastor was to ask him if he knew her entire situation and kind of "go to bat" for her with her pastor. I complETely agree that you shouldn't have to do that.....but I just thought perhaps it would help the girl in the situation she is in with that church.

The part about improving their own situation.......there are many things that can be done and there are many things we can live without if we have to. I understand that she doesn't want to.....because Im there, too, in many areas. For one thing, prayer in and of itself is a powerful means of improving your situation.

I don't know why its the big, rich-looking churches who seem to only want to help even their own members only once or twice. Except for that since they are bigger and richer-looking they have more people coming to them and expecting a hand-out. They tend to get more cautious and then they look greedier.

And actually we can't say that they have plenty of money at that church based on the fact that they send out teams with Carpenter for Christ..........usually these sorts of things are carried out with monies donated specifically for that use. The church cannot use that money for anything but what it was designated for.

Frankly, since a church usually can only give what is in their "benevolence" account, I wonder why that account isn't more often donated to? Its the individuals within the church who haven't woken up and realized that there are people all around them, right next to them, who need help.

And yet, there have been so many times when people have helped us out when we needed it.....even when we didn't ask. We've gotten rides to church when we had no car. We've gotten food given to us at times. We've had parts for our car paid for when the car broke down. etc. Sure we still lived in a run-down part of town, had to use the bus or walk or ride a bike to work (yes even in So. Cal) , our kids didn't have the nicest clothes.....but they had clothes. They had food. And we had our true needs met.

Her ex isn't acting right.......and it's causing her stress. I can certainly get that, too. I think she's learning to rely on God, and I hope she's teaching her kids that God is reliable. The more she prays with them the more they will see God answer those prayers.

We forget that in order for God to do a miracle in our life, we are going to have to be in a position that requires a miracle.

 

[ituttut]

This particular lady comes very close to meeting the "widow" definition.

It has been indicated here that building less buildings would allow for more "good works". The church should be there in time of need, but today it is not their purpose to form a "colony" for the purpose of taking care of the indigent. But in certain cases an attempt should be made after all avenues have been exhausted.

We make our own puddles, and some are just too big to hop over unless we lighten the load. Is this woman able to work? You indicate she is getting close to 60, so surely (presume she birthed them) her children are at the age to go to work, or very close to it. Perhaps there are those in the church that can take the children for a short time until she gets on her feet, or they can be on their own.

Things such as this is the reason we are to give (I believe other than to spreading the Word through our church), to such as The Salvation Army, Gospel Mission's, Hope Centers connected with our churches, etc. If this lady cannot make ends meet, and the church and these organizations run out their programs, I believe Love Offerings can take care of situations such as this for it should be for a short duration.

God's workers today are the miracles that come to those in time of need.

 

[Deacon]

Charity

We forget that each of us are part of the "church".
The church isn't a building, a institution or a welfare office.

Sure sometimes when we band together we can perform much more than we can individually but each of us has a responsibility to care for those in need.

By asking the church to help out you are pushing the burden you feel for this womans need upon others.
First you need to ask, "What can I do to help?"
Then you need to ask, "Is the person in need willing to submit to the leaders who will try to find a way to help?"

Finding a solution to poverty is hard.
It's causes are many; it's cures are tough and long.

Rob

 

[menageriekeeper]

Deacon, the reason she asked other's for help in the first place is because I've helped so many times she feels as though she is taking advantage of me.

Now someone asked about age and ability. This lady is 54, her girls just turned 14. She is disabled, the girls are to young to work, there is no close family, and she brings in too much per month to qualify for food stamps. (isn't that nice?). The real problem here is the ex. He is supposed to supply the girls medical care but he doesn't, so she is left paying the bills. Believe me, legal avenues of collecting are few and far between here, we've been that route. The girls have chronic illnesses (none your business) which require them to be on daily meds, expensive daily meds, in order for them to function at something approaching normal. Their father dosn't disagree, he just thinks it's a nice power trip to keep them in poverty, while he goes on about his life.

The mother's disability keeps her from working enough to support them without SS, and SS keeps her from working enough to supplement her income. The girls would be eligible for Medicaid and that would aleviate the problem some, but it is in the divorce decree that he supply the girls medical care. It would be fraud, we understand, to sign them up when they already have ins coverage.

There is also a state kids ins program that the girls could be enrolled in, that he could qualify them for, but he won't. He likes the power trip. So, what can be done?

In four years (maybe only two if the girls can start working in high school) the situation will alieviate itself. Until then, something is wrong when a mother has to choose between medication and food for her children and doesn't feel free to approach her own church (or individual member therein).

Just so ya'll understand, this is the second person I've helped out in this manner. This is something T and I agree on and DO! It is not a hardship, nor are we trying to get out of it. But, there are more women out there in this position and we are only one family. This discussion is not about whether or not I should help, I've got that idea down pat. This discussion is about why other Christians and the church are not helping.

Do you think that most Christians believe that since they pay thier tithes that they are excused from the responsibility of helping (loving) thier neighbors? What can be said then about the church?

 

[bapmom]

yes MK,

I think you hit on it for alot. IMO, many people think that since they pay their tithes that that qualifies as "charitable giving", so they can just assume the "church" is helping those who need help. They don't even think about it anymore.

The only solution I can think of is that individuals like you speak out, as you are, and try to help others to wake up. We try to help when we see a need and can meet it, but we aren't in much of a position to do alot.

It's a blessing to see how much you care. Sometimes all we can do is brighten our own corner, and show other people how to brighten theirs.

 

[menageriekeeper]

Bapmom, I daresay you can help out a lot more than you think. Remember, Christ said "even a cup of water offered in My Name..."

I used to think exactly like you, and then I figured out I have resources I don't usually think of as resources. Things like I have a lawn mower. I have a sewing machine (that means I can repair clothing, alter things so kids clothes can be bought with plenty of growing room), I'm computer literate to a certain extent, so I can write business letters that look fairly professional, and it goes on and on.

I think that we as Christians simply don't have any idea of just how many resources besides money, God has provided us with. And we don't have the mindset to consider the giving of these things as offerings unto God. But they are.

And God will provide the increase.

 

[bapmom]

You're right of course, MK. And I don't often think of my doing those things for people as giving to them, but it is. Monetarily we can't help out alot, but we always have plenty of food, and we share that anytime we see a need. We give rides when we can, and Ive even typed things up for people who needed it done for their job, or job search.

I know of a few ladies who go to rummage sales all the time........they have picked up some very nice baby things for me for mere cents, which they do not ask me to repay them. But what a blessing that has been!

I was thinking more about this, and I think alot of it is that many people don't know about the needs around them. Many of the people who truly deserve the help are just too embarrassed to go around asking for help. Oftentimes it is the people who can't help them that know about their problem. Im thinking we need to be a bit more willing to bring someone else's plight to the attention of those who can do something about it. That way we aren't asking for something for ourself, but we are being a blessing to our friend in need.

We have recently tried something new in our church called the Master Service Center. People sign up with services they can offer, and the church can match them up with people who have a need in that area. Like my husband can offer a free oil change and the church can match them up with someone who needs that right now. It's still new here, so Im not sure how its going yet.

What do you think?

 

[ituttut]

Do you think that most Christians believe that since they pay thier tithes that they are excused from the responsibility of helping (loving) thier neighbors? What can be said then about the church?

Again, what about a Love Offering? Does her church know the dire straights this woman continues in? Either way ask the Pastor if he will initiate a "Lover Offering", for one of his own.


Have your heard the "other side of the story"? This man may, or may not, be able to do more. Since you are so involved, could (or have you) you telephoned this man? This woman will surely help you get in contact with him for she is allowing you to try to help clean up the mess she has made of her life.

God bless you for your good works in this matter, but it looks to be at the point you need to find some partners to help you out if you feel compelled to continue in this benevolent endeavor.

There is blessing in what you do, which doesn't look to be for the acknowledgement and approval of mortals. We'll never understand fully why some have such difficulty in this life. It could be you are proving you are "born to good works".

I don't "toot my own horn", but I give more to other endeavors than I do my church, for the very problem you pose here. Our "good work" of spreading the gospel of Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and you will be Saved, is not the only work we are to do. If my church didn't try to help a member in need, I would no longer go to that church. It is not the church's mission to set up "long care programs" for its members. But the members had better step up to the plate when called upon in cases such as this.

According to your resources, if that church (the whole congregation) will not help in this matter, and they know the whole situation, then I would take God's money He has blessed you with, and put it to work for Him. Maybe God has appointed you to take care of their needs, until this crisis is over. Your church should consider this as your mission as a missionary with their blessing.

Whatever your course of action, you Christian heart has lead you there, and you will be happy in that action even though you may suffer. But we are to understand we suffer for His names sake.

 

[menageriekeeper]

Ituttut, the ex is a very violent man and is under a restraining order not to have physical contact with her or the children. Financial matters of a neccessity are handled by mail. Contacting him myself would not be something I'd would feel comfortable with and probably would only make matters worse. As for the other side of the story, this man is employed in his families quite successful business. He chooses not to provide.

 

[Mishelly]

" Do you treat church members the same as you treat non church members?"

Yes you treat them the same. When I was younger, my church kept a pantry of food and clothes and gave to whomever asked, no questions. We were not a wealthy church but we always managed to have what we needed. I know WHO did that for us raise:

One year, when I was older. I went with my mother to deliver Christmas gifts to some families in need.

They asked how much, nothing, they asked do we have to come to church, no-but we would love for you to come.

They asked why, because God loves you and wants to help

They did not come to church because of 'hypocrisy's' they felt people had; but they did talk with my parents about God and Jesus.

I know everyone gets many forwards, but the one that comes to mind is the lady who received a letter from Jesus saying he was coming for a visit. She went to buy food and niceties for Him. On her way home she ran into a homeless couple, cold and hungry. She had no money to replace what she bought and did not want to have bare cupboards when Christ came. She gave the lady her coat and the food to the husband to share. She got home and a new letter was in the mailbox.

"Thank you for the visit, you made my day:flower:

Yes there are panhandlers, but who are we to judge and how do we know if they are truly in need or not.

You know the scripture, what you do to the least you do to Me

Do unto others as you would have others do unto you

I have been there and back, I was fortunate for family to help me back up, not everyone has that.

 

[ituttut]

Ituttut, the ex is a very violent man and is under a restraining order not to have physical contact with her or the children. Financial matters of a neccessity are handled by mail. Contacting him myself would not be something I'd would feel comfortable with and probably would only make matters worse. As for the other side of the story, this man is employed in his families quite successful business. He chooses not to provide.

Sounds familiar. Watch your back.