Charles Stanley on Eternal Security

[Michael Wrenn]

Charles Stanley may be the only Southern Baptist who was a part of the so-called "conservative resurgence" that I can listen to. Indeed, I have been blessed many times by his sermons.

But some things he has said and believes I just can't take -- the following, for instance:

"Even if a believer for all practical purposes becomes an unbeliever, his salvation is not in jeopardy… believers who lose or abandon their faith will retain their salvation."

And this: "The Bible clearly teaches that God's love for His people is of such magnitude that even those who walk away from the faith have not the slightest chance of slipping from His hand."

And further: "You and I are not saved because we have an enduring faith. We are saved because at a moment in time we expressed faith in our enduring Lord."

This is a false and damaging teaching.

Here in Southern Baptist OSAS land, I feel like an alien. I wish there was a General Baptist church nearby, but the closest one is an hour and a half away.

 

[Salty]

...Here in Southern Baptist OSAS land, I feel like an alien. I wish there was a General Baptist church nearby, but the closest one is an hour and a half away.

Have you thought about starting a Gen Bap church?

 

[steaver]

Charles Stanley may be the only Southern Baptist who was a part of the so-called "conservative resurgence" that I can listen to. Indeed, I have been blessed many times by his sermons.

But some things he has said and believes I just can't take -- the following, for instance:

"Even if a believer for all practical purposes becomes an unbeliever, his salvation is not in jeopardy… believers who lose or abandon their faith will retain their salvation."

And this: "The Bible clearly teaches that God's love for His people is of such magnitude that even those who walk away from the faith have not the slightest chance of slipping from His hand."

And further: "You and I are not saved because we have an enduring faith. We are saved because at a moment in time we expressed faith in our enduring Lord."

This is a false and damaging teaching.

Here in Southern Baptist OSAS land, I feel like an alien. I wish there was a General Baptist church nearby, but the closest one is an hour and a half away.

I don't think the way Stanley presents eternal security here is done very well, even wrong at some points. However, the truth of being born a child of God and remaining a child of God forever is soundly expressed in the scriptures. One is born with CHrist and the two become one, a new creation. One cannot nor would not ever change this for it is the ulitimate love which no one would want to have broken, even if they feel they have broken it by their sin which they allow themselves to get caught up in at times.

 

[Christos doulos]

Charles Stanley may be the only Southern Baptist who was a part of the so-called "conservative resurgence" that I can listen to. Indeed, I have been blessed many times by his sermons.

But some..............

My friend. Charles Stanley is my pastor, and I believe he preaches sound biblical doctrine, but there are times he could stand to clean up his lingo. Charles Stanley is a firm believer in OSAS. It's just that he has a different path, but the destination is always the same.

 

[Heavenly Pilgrim]

but the destination is always the same.

HP: Very true, but sadly down the same path of error.

 

[Doubting Thomas]

HP: Very true, but sadly down the same path of error.

THIS. I remember reading Stanley's book 'ETERNAL SECURITY' many years ago back when I was a OSAS-believin' Southern Baptist, and as I studied the Scriptures over the years I quickly realized how his book was unbiblical and potentially dangerous on so many levels.

 

[drfuss]

Charles Stanley may be the only Southern Baptist who was a part of the so-called "conservative resurgence" that I can listen to. Indeed, I have been blessed many times by his sermons.

But some things he has said and believes I just can't take -- the following, for instance:

"Even if a believer for all practical purposes becomes an unbeliever, his salvation is not in jeopardy… believers who lose or abandon their faith will retain their salvation."

And this: "The Bible clearly teaches that God's love for His people is of such magnitude that even those who walk away from the faith have not the slightest chance of slipping from His hand."

And further: "You and I are not saved because we have an enduring faith. We are saved because at a moment in time we expressed faith in our enduring Lord."

This is a false and damaging teaching.

Here in Southern Baptist OSAS land, I feel like an alien. I wish there was a General Baptist church nearby, but the closest one is an hour and a half away.

What you said Charles Stanley believes is documented in his book entitled "Eternal Security, You Can be Sure" in both the 1990 and 2002 editions. Stanley believes the same as the late Zane Hodges who is referenced in his book. So what you heard is not a mistake of the moment on Stanley's part.

Stanley/Hodges are the only evangelical teachers that I know that believes that you don't have to be trusting Christ as Savior when you die to go to heaven. Stanley believes a True Christian can stop trusting in Christ as Savior which contradicts what most ES Christians believe. In this he agrees with the Classic Arminians, except he believes the apostates are saved anyway.

Concerning the Southern Baptist OSAS Land you referenced, Stanley has not been called out on this type teaching because the Non-Calvinists in the SBC need Stanley to help resist the attempted takeover of the Calvinists (IMO).

 

[12strings]

What you said Charles Stanley believes is documented in his book entitled "Eternal Security, You Can be Sure" in both the 1990 and 2002 editions. Stanley believes the same as the late Zane Hodges who is referenced in his book. So what you heard is not a mistake of the moment on Stanley's part.

Stanley/Hodges are the only evangelical teachers that I know that believes that you don't have to be trusting Christ as Savior when you die to go to heaven. Stanley believes a True Christian can stop trusting in Christ as Savior which contradicts what most ES Christians believe. In this he agrees with the Classic Arminians, except he believes the apostates are saved anyway.

Concerning the Southern Baptist OSAS Land you referenced, Stanley has not been called out on this type teaching because the Non-Calvinists in the SBC need Stanley to help resist the attempted takeover of the Calvinists (IMO).

Regarding the last statement...I haven't heard Stanley involved in that debate at all. Maybe I'm just not paying attention. I didn't really think he was involved in those arguments.

 

[drfuss]

Regarding the last statement...I haven't heard Stanley involved in that debate at all. Maybe I'm just not paying attention. I didn't really think he was involved in those arguments.

I did not say he was involved in that debate. I think they do not want to allienate him due to the struggle because they may need him.

 

[DaChaser1]

Charles Stanley may be the only Southern Baptist who was a part of the so-called "conservative resurgence" that I can listen to. Indeed, I have been blessed many times by his sermons.

But some things he has said and believes I just can't take -- the following, for instance:

"Even if a believer for all practical purposes becomes an unbeliever, his salvation is not in jeopardy… believers who lose or abandon their faith will retain their salvation."

And this: "The Bible clearly teaches that God's love for His people is of such magnitude that even those who walk away from the faith have not the slightest chance of slipping from His hand."

And further: "You and I are not saved because we have an enduring faith. We are saved because at a moment in time we expressed faith in our enduring Lord."

This is a false and damaging teaching.

Here in Southern Baptist OSAS land, I feel like an alien. I wish there was a General Baptist church nearby, but the closest one is an hour and a half away.

truth of the Bible is that ALL who have been saved by God are kept by same God, as He will make sure to bring them completed in their salvation unto Christ at time of the Rapture/Second Coming or death!

true christians cannot lose faith, as is gift of God, and His gifts/callling are irrovacble!

 

[DaChaser1]

What you said Charles Stanley believes is documented in his book entitled "Eternal Security, You Can be Sure" in both the 1990 and 2002 editions. Stanley believes the same as the late Zane Hodges who is referenced in his book. So what you heard is not a mistake of the moment on Stanley's part.

Stanley/Hodges are the only evangelical teachers that I know that believes that you don't have to be trusting Christ as Savior when you die to go to heaven. Stanley believes a True Christian can stop trusting in Christ as Savior which contradicts what most ES Christians believe. In this he agrees with the Classic Arminians, except he believes the apostates are saved anyway.

Concerning the Southern Baptist OSAS Land you referenced, Stanley has not been called out on this type teaching because the Non-Calvinists in the SBC need Stanley to help resist the attempted takeover of the Calvinists (IMO).

ANY verses stating In NT real chrsitian can lose their faith?

isn't there a passage saying that even IF we were to become faithless, God is faithful to us?

Is This "Unorthodox" view regarding security of the believer part of his 'millinual exclusion" belief?

NOT GOING TO DISCUSS THAT,JUST ASKING IF PART OF IT!

 

[drfuss]

ANY verses stating In NT real chrsitian can lose their faith?

isn't there a passage saying that even IF we were to become faithless, God is faithful to us?

Is This "Unorthodox" view regarding security of the believer part of his 'millinual exclusion" belief?

NOT GOING TO DISCUSS THAT,JUST ASKING IF PART OF IT!

There are many verses that are interpreted to mean a Christian can lose or forfeit their salvation. There are also many verses that are interpreted to mean a Christian can not lose or forfeit their salvation. I stopped debating about eternal security years ago.

Stanley's unorthodox view regarding eternal security is connected with his belief in millinual exclusion. In his book, chapter 8 is entitled "For those who stop believing" gives his version of eternal security. His version of Millinual exclusion is covered in chapter 14, which says Christians who stop believing or have not lived for Christ, will be separate from other Christians until they have been remorseful long enough (including ghashing their teeth). He does not know how long they will be in this remorseful state, but then they will join the rest of us.

 

[webdog]

First off, the Bible says when we are faith-LESS He remains faithful. I believe a true believer can be deceived, if not the warnings against it in Scripture are moot.

Charles Stanley holds to the Free Grace eschatology which consists of Millenial Exclusionism, where a true believer dying in the state mention in the OP will spend 1000 years in Hell along with unbelievers, but will be reinstated to the Kingdom (what they believe wiping every tear from our eyes truly means). The stuff I've read on here the past couple of weeks from kyredneck and forest sound awfully similar in scope.

 

[drfuss]

First off, the Bible says when we are faith-LESS He remains faithful. I believe a true believer can be deceived, if not the warnings against it in Scripture are moot.

Charles Stanley holds to the Free Grace eschatology which consists of Millenial Exclusionism, where a true believer dying in the state mention in the OP will spend 1000 years in Hell along with unbelievers, but will be reinstated to the Kingdom (what they believe wiping every tear from our eyes truly means). The stuff I've read on here the past couple of weeks from kyredneck and forest sound awfully similar in scope.

I think you are correct about the 1000 years in hell being a part of the general millinial (1000 years) exclusion belief. However, Charles Stanley believes in only a version of millenial exclusion, which says that the time an unfaithful Christians and apostates will spend away from other Christians is not known, nor is the place known.

 

[mandym]

However, Charles Stanley believes in only a version of millenial exclusion, which says that the time an unfaithful Christian will spend away from other Christians is not known, nor is the place known.

That is a distinction without value.

 

[drfuss]

That is a distinction without value.

Since I don't believe either version, I agree. However, in answering Webdog's post, I think the distinction show be made so people don't make the wrong sweeping generalizations.

 

[The Biblicist]

Charles Stanley may be the only Southern Baptist who was a part of the so-called "conservative resurgence" that I can listen to. Indeed, I have been blessed many times by his sermons.

But some things he has said and believes I just can't take -- the following, for instance:

"Even if a believer for all practical purposes becomes an unbeliever, his salvation is not in jeopardy… believers who lose or abandon their faith will retain their salvation."
.

Have you ever worked in a nursing home? I have. I have known godly loving believers become cursing hateful unbeleiving people due to physical infirmaties and other mental illnesses. Do you think they lost their salvation?

Alzheimers, and many other aging diseases can change the complete personality of a person.

If you regard this as an EXCEPTION to the rule then that opens the door for other EXCEPTIONS to the rule.

 

[DaChaser1]

I think you are correct about the 1000 years in hell being a part of the general millinial (1000 years) exclusion belief. However, Charles Stanley believes in only a version of millenial exclusion, which says that the time an unfaithful Christians and apostates will spend away from other Christians is not known, nor is the place known.

regardless of the term used by him and others that hold to that belief, they have just undercut the efficiency of the Cross of Chriost to redeen, secure, and keep salvation for us...

For either jesus paid it ALL, and NOTHING that we do can remove us from God, as God anchors us into Christ, or we have no real salvation at all...

 

[The Biblicist]

First off, the Bible says when we are faith-LESS He remains faithful. I believe a true believer can be deceived, if not the warnings against it in Scripture are moot.

Charles Stanley holds to the Free Grace eschatology which consists of Millenial Exclusionism, where a true believer dying in the state mention in the OP will spend 1000 years in Hell along with unbelievers, but will be reinstated to the Kingdom (what they believe wiping every tear from our eyes truly means). The stuff I've read on here the past couple of weeks from kyredneck and forest sound awfully similar in scope.

Let me see if I understand what you said correctly. Are you saying that Stanley believes that a true believer dying in an unfaithful condition will spend 1000 years in hell with unbelievers, thus similar to the doctrine of purgatory, and then be reinstated later with other believers?

If that is what you are saying, could you cite the source?

Thanks

 

[drfuss]

Let me see if I understand what you said correctly. Are you saying that Stanley believes that a true believer dying in an unfaithful condition will spend 1000 years in hell with unbelievers, thus similar to the doctrine of purgatory, and then be reinstated later with other believers?

If that is what you are saying, could you cite the source?

Thanks

See my posts #7 and #12 for the version of millenial exclusion that Stanley believes. Stanley believes the amount of time is determined by God and the place is not known, which is different from the general millenial exclusion belief.

As to the source of his beliefs, his Book entitled "Eternal Security, You can be Sure" provides his version of eternal security and millenial exclusion. Both his 1990 and 2002 editions.