Child molesters and other perpetrators in church?

I went to a larger church where a child molester was protected by the pastor. His sentencing phase (after pleading GUILTY) was eight hours long because they had so many character witnesses. The prosecutor said they were amazed that the church pastor got on the stand and said everybody in the church knew about him and backed him 100%. I worked with the guy for a year in the television ministry and they didn't tell me because my step-daughters had been molested by their real dad and they knew how I would feel.

The pastor lied to many people saying he only did this once. While the man's own court records (written by him in the plea bargain) said he did it three times a week from 6 years of age to 15. We found out aboout this from the newspaper.

The pastor did everything he could to get him off and even sent him to a Christian counselor who now works (yes I said WORKS 75 bucks an hour) full time at the church counseling marriages--The counselor testified that he had no craving for children so he wasn't a pedaphile. The pastor said everybody knew of him and was behind him among a lot of other lies and the music minister also lied. They didn't tell the police until the counselor turned it in to DHS. The police detective threatened to put the pastor in jail herself if he ever didn't turn one in again. The pastor used his political power and got her knocked from detective back to patrolman.

The guy was setenced to two 15 year sentences, but they were reduced to 1.5 years because of all of the character witnesses believed in this "chiristian" (who didn't start coming to church until he got caught, by the way). He now works in the church around kids.

I watched him several times from a hidden spot while he would walk past windows we had into the nursery and stand and watch the kids. When someone would walk up he'd run over to the coke machine and act like he was getting a coke, only to return to the window after they left. This was AFTER he got out of prison.

He is STILL being protected by the church even though they have a new pastor. I'm waiting to see what his action is going to be about this guy. All of the deacons know about him, but none of the parents with kids have been warned except through grapevines. There was an active push to hush it up and fix it so he wouldn't have to go to jail at all. The pastor that was there supposedly threw books against the wall when he got back from the court-house because it was going to be made public that they were trying to get him off.

Of course, like all other stories there was a lot more crookedness. I talked to a deacon who takes care of the kids in the church and he told me that I needed to learn to keep my mouth shut and that I this would start a bon-fire in the church and I wasn't about to do that in HIS church.

So, I left.

 

wow, I get up for ten minutes and six posts magically appear!

No, WinDork, I am not a sexual offender, nor do I know one, but thank you for your concern. raying: and I do not defend the perverts. I am sorely tempted to be very offended by your statement towards me, WinDork, however, I am simply saying that while I may not be able to trust them again that does not mean that Christ cannot change them for the good.


El Guero, I should have been more specific earlier when I was talking about there being a time period where they can prove themselves.....I was referring to such things as adultery. A person who has fallen so low as to perpetrate a perversion on a child has to face some very real and harsh consequences for that.......I agree.


ps, how do I report a post on this new forum?

 

Philip,

I don't know why a church would conduct itself the way it did in your post. That clearly was not the way it ought to happen.


El Guero,

yes it was a sexual sin that was dealt with in Corinthians........"that a man should have his father's wife".

 

Only if there is an unbiblical approach to ministry in the church. The Bible teaches that everyone is to be serving in teh church, not just the leaders. So if everyone is serving as everyone should be, then this guy doesn't look any different than anyone else. Besides in capacities like setting up and tearing down, or cleaning, the are "behind teh scenes" ministries that are vitally important, but not public. It would be sin for the church to not allow this person to serve in the church in some capacity.

But he didn't. He likened the offense of spiritually immature believers to offenses against children. But having said that, how is molesting a child a greater sin than committing adultery? It isn't. OR than stealing? It isn't. It has different social consequences. I am not minimizing child molesting. I am rasing the bar on everything else. Church discipline is for any unrepentant sinner, not just the really bad ones.

I agree absoultely

I will not give them a second chance to offend like that either. And if you think I have suggested that I would, then I have miscommunicated or you have misread. But following the biblical commands regarding restoration for sinners is not giving them a second chance to sin by molesting. It is actually the opposite ... setting up yet another wall of discipleship to help them not offend.

A person who is a child molester will never be able to work in children's ministries again at any time in his life. But that doesn't mean he can do nothing in the church. This is a place where I believe we have to let the Bible determine our approach, not our personal sensitivities towards a particular sin.

 

Our God is great enough to deliver from any kind of bondage whether it is drug addiction, sexual perversion in general, or pedophilia specifically. I do not believe that any pedophile can be cured through counseling or therapy. Only the redemptive power of Jesus Christ can deliver from such bondage, in my opinion.

Thus, how are we to interact with a person who has done such things? Out of love, of course. Can we love a redeemed pedophile? If not, we'd better hit our knees. Do we put them in charge of children? Absolutely not, any more than we'd put a redeemed drug addict in charge of the police evidence room that is filled with drugs. Why not? Because we love them, that's why.

 

Many people have responded with some great information. The responses that result in the perpetrator being near the victim after the assult are concerning. This is VERY serious. Necessary precautions must be taken whether the assult actually happened or not.

This perpetrator SHOULD not be apologizing to his young victim, at least not now until she is of legal age and consents to it. That would be a form of child abuse, PERIOD. The foster kids we had would have been mortified to see their rapist again.

It would also minimize the assult. Placing adultery and child molestation in the same catagory minimizes it also. I agree sin is sin but there are levels of sin. Probably half of the people on this BB board have committed adultery a time or two in their life (f not, they thought about it) but how many have sinned against a helpless child in this sick way, or even thought of doing it?
Restoration should take place OFF church grounds, and the perpitrator should find another church to attend after. It's best if people not in authority positions suggest this (to avoid legal consequences) to him so the church can avoid legal consequences. The perpitrator should NEVER be allowed to be around the victim, period. HE is like an alcoholic in a liquor store, except the result of his weakness is ruining a soul forever. He can possibly be restored, only God knows, but that doesn't justify deliberately allowing him to ever have a chance to do this sin again. We know that the eternal road is narrow so take the necessary precautions.

I know a few child molesters and they still avoid being around children, good for them! I like them both, and have grown up with them. One attends our church, well actually just bible study. He is not welcome in church service because kids are there. The other molester is involved in a bible study and promise keepers (Adult functions) Both admitted to the crimes. I believe this is unusual but our church has alot of stable foster parents, social workers etc...who watch him.

It is not the churches obligation to mail letters to other churches warning them of this guy. It could get possibly get them in legal trouble depending upon the circumstance. Remember, the accused could be innocent. Restoration yes, mathew 18 yes, but do not put this young child EVER in any situation, or another child at church, in a situation that could result in even a bad "look" from across the room from this guy to another child.
All of the biblical procedures can be followed. I t's our human side that keeps going back saying the perpetrator should be in church etc...
The child has a right to go back to church with her friends who can support her during this time. I would get a restraining order (If I was the Pastor) against him, or ask a member to do so then is not allowed to come onto church grounds at all in the future. Just say he is "harrasing" others (even if he isn't) by being there. Our good friend is a judge who grants these orders. It would likely make no difference to the judge if the guy was REALLY harrasing anyone since the situation calls for it anyway. Just my lay opinion.
It's very sad this Pastor hasn't at least sent a card to this little girl & her family yet.

Church funds could be used to help pay for counseling for both families. Always involve the authorities as others said upon a situation like this. Just my two cents worth

 

wow, while I typed my post in just a few minutes there were many messages that appeared too !

 

Kris,

no one said that the perp ought to be back in the same church as the victim.

and I don't think you should suggest lying to a judge in order to get a restraining order. The court system is not there for us to "police" our church discipline for us. If a restraining order is called for, then the victim can get one on his/her own, and it would include church times. There is no need to lie and say he is harassing members if he isn't.

 

Honestly I think we are pretty much on the same page here, we just don't realize it.

El Guero, I understand your concerns. I also would want to be sure that that person is not able to molest any other child again. I think all of us have agreed with that, and said that there ought to be measures taken to ensure accountability.

I think it boils down to whether we believe a sinner of this particular offense can be rehabilitated. Rehab does not mean that we let him have a Sunday School class again....just like we don't put a recovered alcoholic in charge of the communion wine.

All we are saying is that with the proper restrictions and supervision, JEsus Christ can help these people overcome and become fellowshipping Christians.


Philip's example earlier made me think of something else. As churches I do think we need to be more open and honest with what is actually going on inside. The thing is, when rumors start going around the truth is often lost sight of. So when something has happened.....an accusation or something proven....then the pastor needs to get up there and explain to the church what is being said and what his response to it has been. There needs to be some accountability for the accused, too. And after legal punishment we need to not forget consequences.....like limitations of future ministry, and the need to be supervised at all times.

 

I have read posts, read books, studied the literature, and talked to the victims. I am familiar with the issues. I guess I just have the problem of believing we should do what Scripture says. (I say that jokingly in a way. I don't mean to imply that you believe differently. However, I think you have some biblical conundrums.)

If your use of Scripture does not involve restoration for repentant sinners, then you are not handling it biblically. I don't see any way around that. Scripture gives no other option that I can find. On what biblical basis can we exclude a repentant sinner from the congregation of the saints? (Again, I have said he may need to find another biblical local church, but we cannot deny him membership and fellowship.)

If your intolerance does not include following biblical mandates, then I think it is wrong, and what I "feel" has no bearing on that. I will guarantee you that you are not harsher nor more direct with child molesters than I. I do not feel it wrong to confront child molesters, to go with them to the police to start the legal process where necessary, to keep them away from victims and potential victims, etc. But the Bible is clear on how we treat repentant sinners.

Then you are not responding biblically. How does setting up chairs hurt a child molester? Think about it? This would be a great opportunity to work along side them to develop a relationship with them. Those hours of set up and tear down provide hours of fertile conversational and discipleship soil. It build relationships and establishes accountability. If you tell him he can't do anything, he is more likely to drop out of church, the one place he needs to be above all else.

You say there is no cure. It is tantamount to a denial of the precious blood of Christ and his transforming power when you say that. 1 Cor 6:9-10 makes clear that there is a cure (such "were some of you"). The world teachers there is no cure. That is purely worldly psychology without basis in Scripture. I will never put a child molester back in a situation where they could regress, but that is not becuas there is no cure.

In the end, we have to decide if we will respond biblically or not. Those are the only two options.

On what Scriptural basis do you tell a man or woman that they have to be disbodient to Chrsit because of their sin? When you tell them they have no place of service in the church that is exactly what you are doing. God commands all believers to be involved and ministering in their local church. You have no right to tell them they can't, no matter your personal feelings about their sin. I think you are headed down a dangerous road here.

 

I agree with Bob's statements here. I do not think they rule out biblical restoration and forgiveness. Guarding the flock involves guarding the repentant sinners among the flock, whether they be child molesters or any other kind.

 

I don’t think biblically that we have any options. Again, we need to decide whether or not we are going to respond biblically. He should not do it alone, and perhaps not in person. But it must be confessed or we are allowing sin to go unaddressed in the church.

They are the same in that they are sexual sins that are an abomination to God. They have differeing social connotations. But an adulterer and child molester should be treated the same by the church, as should a thief or a murderer. That was the context of my statement.

The location is not important. It is a matter of convenience between the parties. However restoration to the church must take place when the church is assembled.

God has stated clearly that he can be restored, if he confesses.

Which has been stated by everybody here, I believe.

No, actually the Bible declares, yes even demands, that he be in church.

I think this demonstrates how unbiblical our good intentions can sometimes be. Asking someone to lie on behalf of the church is unconscionable. As I said, the perpetrator should probably be encouraged to attend another church. If it were here, I would find him a church and talk to the pastor about the situation so that he is fully informed.

Again, we must be biblical, even in this kind of sin.

 

Wayne,

I am not trying to imply anything. My questions are not about your motives and ability to interpret. My questions are kindly and sincerely directed at your willingness to be obedient to what seem to be clear commands about restoration. On what biblical basis can we exclude an repentant sinner? I can't think of one, and so far you haven't offered one. It sounds to me like you are expressing direct intentions of being disobedient to Scripture in the matter of restoration of repentant sinners. Restoration is nowhere close to toleration, but it seems you are making that connection for some reason.

You do not have less of a toleration for this sin than I do. I hate it as much as you do. I have no intent to tolerate it in the body.

The difference here is not gifting. Love is not a gift; nor is protection of the flock. THey are responsibilities of obedience. To love sinners is to do what Jesus did. He didn't tolerate their sin, but he loved them where they were and changed them. And he has called us to do the same. On what basis are certain believers exempt from that requirement to be involved in ministry to sinners?

I am not following your thinking as to how you avoid these matters concerning restoration to fellowship and ministry.

You seem to imply that I do not take this sin as seriously as you do, that I believe in tolerating it, and standing aside when it happens. I don't konw where you have gotten that from.

In the end, I don't think it is about gifts. I hate loving people (how's that for wierd?) I have to work very hard at it. But I think we have no option if we are to do what Christ called us to do.