Child molesters and other perpetrators in church?

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I don't think you should suggest I said to lie either ! You already mentioned reporting someone to the BB today so maybe it's best I not even respond. You're batting a hundred so far today

I believe it was this statement of mine that you are misunderstanding:

"Just say he is "harrasing" others (even if he isn't) by being there. Our good friend is a judge who grants these orders. It would likely make no difference to the judge if the guy was REALLY harrasing anyone since the situation calls for it anyway"
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BY BEING THERE.
In this instance, the womans physical presence at church is harrassing in itself due to the situation.

I also added this was my lay opinion.

Personally, I would ask the teen myself to please to stop attending church service, explain my concerns and offer to attend bible study with her. People know when you care about them. As I stated before, I believe the Pastor or someone else likely asked her to leave and she is attending anyway but who knows.
We live in an affluent area, almost everyone is educated with good jobs, everyone knows everyone so that might make a difference.
I don't know about your other comment except to say the courts primary job is to protect us, and are generally not involved in church discipline matters. Hope we're done now

 

Oh I forgot...I wonder what grounds she can get this restraining order since I understand the victim is NOT attending church any longer so doesn't see the perp

 

Kris,

you most certainly did suggest lying.....when you suggested saying someone was harrassing others even if they weren't.

My comment about reporting someone's post was directed at a poster who implied that I am a child molester myself........his rude comment was addressed in the thread already so there's no need to continue discussing that.

Batting 100? Why are you making this personal with me?

This particular thread that you have joined is not talking about reformedbeliever's particular situation. We are dealing in hypotheticals and generalities in this thread.

Of course a person can get a restraining order if they still feel endangered by the perp. Any restraining order would also include church services. If the victim is no longer going to the church and the perp is, than the church cannot try to get a restraining order against the perp under false allegations. If the church chooses to discipline an unrepentant perpetrator then they would ask the perp not to return to services. After that I do not see anyone actually still trying to attend, but if they do then I think an usher at the door directing him to go elsewhere would probably be in order.

 

No I did not promote lying, please stop your accusations. There is no reason for this behavior against fellow BB'ers. You're really on a roll. I will add you to my prayers.

 

:wavey: Hi El_Guero

I saw it briefly but didn't understand it and went onto reading another post. Sounds like a joke? I just tried to email you privately but your email said you specifically asked not to take emails from me. If you want to shoot me a private message, go ahead. Maybe it will let me respond back.
I am getting the servers busy message so it might be a little while before I email back.

Thanks

 

Bapmom, I never said never allowed to go to church again, I said not in a church with childrens' ministries.

I was the Asst. Director of Reformers Unanimous and believe in the program but this happened before we had the program at our church. While repentance should be encouraged and accepted, the man still needed to leave the church due to it's large childrens ministry.

The world tells us there is no cure for a pedophile Can God cure one? I believe He can. I just think he needed to move on and other churches with hildrens ministries warned.

You may say: All churches have childrens' ministries. Then I would suggest christian counsiling and private pastoring outside the rhealm of the normal church setting.

 

Pastor Larry,
There are many verses pertaining to the treatment of children in the bible. The man wasn't repentant. Even after I went to his house and forgave him he showed no outward signs of repentance. He never even apologized to me.

I am not saying he should not be afforded opportunity for christian counsil. I am saying that "YES he can be refused admittance to that particular church which has a large childrens ministry". The man was a predator.

Put your own kids in there and see if you feel the same way.

If you are responsible for hundreds of other peoples children and you have a known child molester in your midst, you must protect the children and deal with him in a different venue than that church. It is common sense. Let him repent if he seeks it but there are consequences to sin!

 

I can certainly imagine that kind of forgiveness. What you are missing is that I have said the man was not repentant. If he was, it should be afforded him in some other venue than the church. If he molested your child and you saw him with another and didn't tell the police, you would be wrong and in sin!

 

Wayne, this was just interesting to me. If God did not gift you with discernment, then why do you trust your ability to discern??? ... BTW, I don't think discernment has any relevance here. As a former president used to say, Trust but verify. Or to put it another way, always cut the deck. With a child molester, he would never again be allowed near any ministry with children, or in close contact with them. He would be instructed to sit in an area of the auditorium where there were no children close to him or in his direct line of sight. He would be carefully watched and protected from temptation as much as humanly possible. He would be involved in a ministry that did not involve public knowledge or exposure. But I don't see the biblical warrant to do it differently. I just can't see it. I have had to deal with it. So that is why I have given some thought to this.

 

Yes you did, Kris. You said that a person should tell the court he was harassing someone, even if he wasn't.

 

I am not sure that that is a point of dispute since we all agree.

So how did you forgive? Why go to his house to forgive a guy who hasn't asked for it? Having an attitude of forgiveness is one thing. Forgiving is something else. I think it would have been wiser for you not to go to his house. That sounds like an extremely unwise move that has no good ending. The pastor should have dealt with the situation. Given the emotions of the time for you, it seems wiser to have steered clear. Fortunately, nothing bad happened and no accusations were made.

If by "particular church" you mean the one that he sinned at, then i agree. I have already said that. The existence of a children's ministry cannot be a legitimate criteria however. Virtually all church's will have one. The requirement is a pastor and men in teh church who are actually willing to do the work of ministry in this man's life. Too many people don't want to do that.

It wouldn't change, given the prescription I have given here.

I have already said all of that.

If you read my comments, all of them have been directed at the situation that involves a repentant sinner. Please be careful to read what I actually said.

If by "the church" you mean the particular church where he sinned, then I agree. But the church is the only place where he can truly get the spiritual help and guidance he needs. You can't send him anywhere else and omit the church.

In most places, if he molested a child and it wasn't reported to the police, it is sin. Doing to a second child is not the issue. Reporting of child sex crimes is mandatory for all people in some states, and most people in all states.

 

Here is a link to the LATEST IFB sex scandal. Heartbreaking to say the least.
http://www.jeriwho.net/lillypad2/2006/06/bob-gray-of-jacksonville-florida.html

 

Just say he is "harrasing" others (even if he isn't) by being there. Our good friend is a judge who grants these orders. It would likely make no difference to the judge if the guy was REALLY harrasing anyone since the situation calls for it anyway.


You deliberately dropped TWO words from my statement above just as another poster did

just by being there.


If you read the WHOLE sentence, it makes more sense. Wow, who would have expected that? :smilewinkgrin: Funny that you also missed where I corrected another poster

 

Actually, you didn't miss where I corrected another poster because this is the response to her after she dropped a few words from the sentence. Then you take her response and do the exact same thing against me. Oh well...life goes on. I forgive you for deliberately wanting to misunderstand.

 

Kris.............:wavey: .....................those two little words (which are actually four) do not make any difference in what I was saying. We don't deliberately want to misunderstand. Its what you are saying. We can go on though.


Ok, I can agree with Pastor Larry on everything he wrote. If the victim does not feel comfortable with the perp still there, then by all means he ought to be given over to another church along with the knowledge of his history and everything the first pastor did in response. I think there needs to be full disclosure between the two pastors in that case.

Part of the reason I feel so strongly on this is that I believe if we just push him away from the church then the likelihood that he will reoffend will be greater. I think it is part of the church's duty towards the community at large to do its best to rehab this offender, and to get him so busy in some kind of behind-the-scenes work and ministry that he doesn't have time or energy to reoffend.

 

Biblical counseling for sexual abuse

Pay for counseling? The proper place for counseling is in the church. Don't be fooled! Psychology has nothing to offer here. Biblical counseling by a pastor is the best answer for both parties. Though some would argue that many pastors are not qualified, IMHO, every pastor should be qualified in Biblical counseling. The offended person must be taught forgiveness and comforted whereas the offender must be taught repentance and how to change his/her behavior.

My point is to avoid the secular psychologists and therapists like the plague. IMHO, they do more harm than good. The victim of sexual abuse who enters therapy will likely never be free of therapy. On the other hand, Biblical counseling brings closure for the victim to move on with his/her life.