Child molesters and other perpetrators in church?

Milady,

the problem with your pastor-friend's solution is that the sex-offender lists are all-encompassing and yet non-specific as to circumstances. They include anyone with any sort of case....including the 19 yr old who dated a 17 yr old, and sinfully had consensual relations......but they are still charged and registered as a sex offender. They also include offenses against adults, which may have happened 20 or more years ago in the offender's life. Of course, anyone may go to their computer and look up their sex offender list. I just did that the other day. I do it periodically so that I can do my best to keep my kids safe. Ive found out some things I needed to know.......and some things I don't think I needed to know.

I don't think any of us would want our offenses against God listed and posted up on a bulletin board in the church foyer. If I were them Id leave that church, too.....and not because I was unrepentant but because to me that shows a spirit of unwillingness to forgive, AND unwillingness to do what it takes to help a person overcome and grow beyond their sinfulness.

As Pastor Larry has aptly stated, an offender must be willing to submit to supervision. If he balks at that then he shows an unrepentant heart and should be disciplined out of the church and NOT sent on to another church. But if the staff is willing to do what is right and is truly willing to protect the flock, than they will invest their time and effort to see that the offender is adequately supervised 100% of the time. If a church leadership is TRULY committed to helping REPENTANT sinners, than they will do what it takes.....they will make the effort.

 

If he spoke my language, lived in my area, and came to my church, yes it would be wrong for me to send him somewhere else.

If he spoke my language, lived in my area, and came to my church, yes it would be wrong for me to send him somewhere else.

If a pedophile speaks another language, then send him to a church that speaks that language.

You are using bad examples here, Wayne. They are not even similar. Being Japanese or Cuban isn't a sin. It is a cultural issue.

Can you provide one biblical example of a church refusing to minister to to a repentant sinner due to their sin problems? No, you can't. You cannot find one iota of biblical support for your position. If you could have, you would have posted it by now.

Neither one is true. God called us to minister to sinful people. You have no biblical basis for refusing to minister to any sinner. It simply isn't there. You are operating out of your own fears and lack of trust in God. If you trusted God and took proper precautions, you would not refuse to minister to repentant sinners. (You probably wouldn't twist my words either.)

As will I. Don't misrepresent my words, Wayne. That is wrong as well. You know what I said. I will never put a child in danger.

I didn't spiritualize anything. Read the text and figure out the reference of the pronouns and the little ones. It is clear in the text that "the little ones" are the ones who "became as these little ones."

I have done no such thing, Wayne, and you know it. You are resorting to personal attacks. All I have done is call us to obedience. No child will fear sexual molestation in this church. I will not stand for it. I will not allow it to happen.

Nor will I. How many times do I have to say that before you listen and quit misrepresenting what I say?

Sure it is. Following a pedophille around is the biblical practice of accountability. There is no biblical practice for a pedophile church. You can't find it. In Christ, we are all one.

This is still simple, Wayne. Unless you have some biblical support for refusing to minister to a repentant sinner, then you are sinning against God's commands. I can't find it. I would love to be able to avoid ministering to pedophiles, and adulterers, and drug addicts and dealers, and alcoholics, and liar, and murderers, and wife abusers, and thieves ... And I have had them all in this church. But I can't refuse to minister to them while being faithful to the call God gives pastors in his word. And neither can you, unless you know of some Scripture that I don't.

Remember, I have specificallyy said I will never put a child at risk. I will protect the flock. But in contrast to you, I will protect the whole flock, including the pedophiles that God has saved. I will protect them from a difficult situation. I will preach and teach the life giving message of Christ to them that changes them and forgives them. I will not put them at risk any more than I will a child.

Refusal to minister to repentant sinners is ungodly and unchristlike. It has no place in our churches.

 

I love the Word. I can’t remember any biblical support you gave. Please reoffer it and I will look again. The only verse you used 1) you didn’t properly interpret, 2) and didn’t mean what you tried to make it mean anyway.

You made two contradictory statements, all too typical. I have never suggested that pedophiles have a right to worship over a child’s right to be safe. I will give you one million dollars if you can show anywhere I said that (without distorting what I said). I have constantly said that children must be protected, and so should pedophiles. Don’t make up my words to try to change my position. If you can’t defeat what I believe, you have no right to change it.

However, there are verses supporting my biblical line of reasoning, verses on forgiveness, verses on accountability, verses on repentance, verses on restoration, verses on unity in the body of Christ.

yes, and that is something you learn from the word of God.

It is not a mental disease. It is sin, and the Bible teaches us how to deal with that. You can understand it if you will understand God’s word.

Only because I have taken seriously the commands of God about his body.

It is dishonest for you to say that I have attacked anyone, and silly for you to say I don’t know my limits.

Nor me. But he did call me to minister to people in this community, even when I detest their sins.

Where have I used any ad hominem? You may be confused with what an ad hominem is, because I haven’t used any at all. I have rigidly devoted myself to the discussion of Scripture, and repeatedly asked you to support your position. I have used much Scripture in support of my position. You have used one verse out of context and your own personal preferences in support of yours.

Please tell me this was a joke. If not, this is worse than your last misuse of Scripture. Christ’s point was about Jews and Gentiles, not types of sinners. If you can show any biblical theology I have thrown out I will gladly consider it. The only Jesus I know is the one who loved the outcasts of society and ministered to the people no one else would. And that is the Jesus I follow in ministering to the outcasts of society and the people you refuse to minister to.

When you see them confess and repent, God is showing you their heart.

I am not selling anything, and I have looked to the Lord. You have not. You are refusing to minister to people for whom Christ died. That is sinful.

Who called you to sniff out sincerity? None of us can do that. God called us to minister to sinners. You refuse. What else can we say?

Where? I have not attacked you personally, nor anyone else.

God didn’t call you to work with sinners? What are you doing then? How can you refuse to protect the flock? How can you refuse to protect a pedophile from recurring temptation by holding him accountable and discipling him? How can you refuse to protect a pedophile by kicking him out of your church?

Wayne, I have used nothing but Scripture for my position. I would rather not minister to these types of sinners, but God doesn’t give us that choice. If we are to be obedient, we must. This is a simple choice: obey God or not.