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Choose ye this day whom you will serve

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by J.D., Jun 18, 2006.

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  1. Ransom

    Ransom Active Member

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    Tell you what. Why don't you settle the matter by quoting the part of Joshua 24 where Joshua invites the Israelites to choose to serve the Lord, OK?
     
    #41 Ransom, Jun 22, 2006
  2. Brother Bob

    Brother Bob New Member

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    Ok, that settles it! :thumbs: :applause:
     
    #42 Brother Bob, Jun 22, 2006
  3. webdog

    webdog Active Member
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    ...besides the Scipture I posted on the last page? Man, you calvinists couldn't see clear choice given to serve God or gods if it jumped off the page and bit you!
     
    #43 webdog, Jun 22, 2006
  4. Ransom

    Ransom Active Member

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    webdog said:

    ...besides the Scipture I posted on the last page?

    You mean the one verse you repeated a dozen times that says, "Fear God" and "put away the gods your fathers worshipped"?

    Yeah, the words "choose to serve YHWH" really jump right out at you in Josh. 24:14, don't they? How could I have missed them? :rolleyes:

    Thank you for proving my point for me. Joshua commanded the Israelites to abandon paganism and serve the true God. He didn't offer it as a choice.
     
    #44 Ransom, Jun 22, 2006
  5. J.D.

    J.D. Active Member
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    Let me restate my question again, but in another way. I'm looking for the non-calvinist answer to it, since I already know the calvinist answer and I've never seen a non-calvinist answer to it. Please, no debate over what Joshua said - I regret using that example now. Here is the question with a sencario:

    A group of young men attend a church service. They all hear the gospel preached for the first time. Out of ten young men, two of them are moved in their hearts to believe and receive the Lord as their Savior. The remaining eight were not so moved - in fact, they found the whole thing quite amusing as their scoffing jokes revealed.

    WHAT WAS IN THE TWO THAT BELIEVED THAT WOULD CAUSE THEM TO REPENT AND RECEIVE THE LORD?

    LIKEWISE, WHAT WAS IN THE EIGHT THAT BELIEVED NOT THAT CAUSED THEM TO REJECT THE LORD?
     
    #45 J.D., Jun 23, 2006
  6. webdog

    webdog Active Member
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    And to think that putting away false gods is not an option. Wow. What does verse 15 say? If they didn't follow this "command", then what? They could actually CHOOSE to worship false gods? Man, let Bible interpret Bible and let go of your manmade theology!
    Kinda like your "command" word, huh? :rolleyes: Funny how the word "choose" IS found in verse 15 though. Of course you will say that a "choice" is the ability to choose between false gods and false gods, which negates the very definition of "choice".
    I proved nothing for you, you just can't see through your pride.
     
    #46 webdog, Jun 23, 2006
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 23, 2006
  7. Brother Bob

    Brother Bob New Member

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    God made them J.D. to know good and evil and to be able to choose which one they wanted. He made us humans so we could think, what about that. We are not like computers but man can really think. That is great!!!! amen
     
    #47 Brother Bob, Jun 23, 2006
  8. J.D.

    J.D. Active Member
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    Actually, he made them innocent and they were tempted to sin, after which when they sinned they knew good and evil.

    That aside, am I to assume that your answer to my questions is:

    Bob: These two THOUGHT about the gospel and therefore received it.

    Bob: These eight didn't THINK about the gospel, and therefore rejected it.

    Is that correct?
     
    #48 J.D., Jun 23, 2006
  9. Brother Bob

    Brother Bob New Member

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    No, they made of thought about the gospel but decided they loved darkness rather than light.
     
    #49 Brother Bob, Jun 23, 2006
  10. J.D.

    J.D. Active Member
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    Why and how could anyone in their right mind DECIDE to love darkness rather than light?
     
    #50 J.D., Jun 23, 2006
  11. webdog

    webdog Active Member
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    Two words...sin nature.
     
    #51 webdog, Jun 23, 2006
  12. J.D.

    J.D. Active Member
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    Webdog - congratulations, you have correctly answered the question "Why and how could anyone in their right mind DECIDE to love darkness rather than light?"

    Now tell me this, why and how can a man that has that same sin nature turn right around and DECIDE to love light rather than darkness?
     
    #52 J.D., Jun 23, 2006
  13. webdog

    webdog Active Member
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    I might have the letters g - o - d in my name, but I'm not Him. You have won "the finite cannot know all that is infinite" prize! Some things we won't know until we get to Heaven, regardless of what Mr. Calvin and his flower try to sell.
     
    #53 webdog, Jun 23, 2006
  14. J.D.

    J.D. Active Member
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    bzzzzzzzzzzzzzt!!! You disappoint me Webdog. I clearly stated earlier in this thread that you can not use the words "I don't know" or "mystery" in your answer (or any variation thereof (implied)). Sorry. And now to our next contestant...
     
    #54 J.D., Jun 23, 2006
  15. webdog

    webdog Active Member
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    Since there is no room for "I don't know" or "mystery" (what calvinism calls unconditional election, btw), you must have an infinite mind, or at the very least, received some special revelation from God in regards to soterieology. I'm glad you have it all figured out...
     
    #55 webdog, Jun 23, 2006
  16. J.D.

    J.D. Active Member
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    Well, I meant to say don't use "I don't know" or "mystery" in my OP. Oops. Is my face red?
     
    #56 J.D., Jun 23, 2006
  17. J.D.

    J.D. Active Member
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    I want to repeat my questions here to see if I can get another round of answers from any non-calvinists that may be there. After a while, I'll open the questions up to calvinists to compare the answers. And since I goofed up the OP apparently, I will accept "I don't know", it's a mystery, and it's not in the bible, type of answers. Sorry for buzzing you Webdog.

    WHAT WAS IN THE TWO THAT BELIEVED THAT WOULD CAUSE THEM TO REPENT AND RECEIVE THE LORD?

    LIKEWISE, WHAT WAS IN THE EIGHT THAT BELIEVED NOT THAT CAUSED THEM TO REJECT THE LORD?

    And an added question from a previous post:

    Why and how can a man that has that same sin nature turn right around and DECIDE to love light rather than darkness?
     
    #57 J.D., Jun 23, 2006
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 23, 2006
  18. Brother Bob

    Brother Bob New Member

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    Fear of God will do it every time.
     
    #58 Brother Bob, Jun 23, 2006
  19. Ransom

    Ransom Active Member

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    And to think that putting away false gods is not an option.

    "Put away the gods that your fathers served beyond the River and in Egypt, and serve the LORD." (Josh. 24:14)

    To think that when your leader speaks in the imperative mood, it's not an order. :rolleyes:

    If they didn't follow this "command", then what? They could actually CHOOSE to worship false gods?

    Get serious. You don't actually think that Joshua was sincerely offering them a choice to do what the Law forbade, do you?
     
    #59 Ransom, Jun 23, 2006
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 23, 2006
  20. webdog

    webdog Active Member
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    I can see where Joshua really put his foot down, and told them!:rolleyes:
    Jos 24:15 But if it doesn't please you to worship the LORD, choose for yourselves today the one you will worship: the gods your fathers worshiped beyond the Euphrates River, or the gods of the Amorites in whose land you are living. As for me and my family, we will worship the LORD."
     
    #60 webdog, Jun 23, 2006
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