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Chosen Childlessness
- Thread starter PastorSBC1303
- Start date
PastorSBC1303
Active Member
We are not currently using birth control. We have taken care of the situation permanently. So having more for us is not an option, I was just throwing it out there for sake of debate on at what point is it no longer wrong?
I would rather not have this thread deal with whether birth control is right or wrong.
Let's stick the issue of chosen childlessness and is it a problem or not.
That is incorrect. All the BCP's you will find marketed regularly in your local pharmacy are abortifacient. The literature will say the the abortifacient properties are secondary, but any expert will tell you that if you use them for an length of time, the secondary effect will come into play. So if you are relying on them you WILL eventually have an abortion.
A very poor, very orthodox Jewish father of 12 visits his rabbi with a question.
"We can't afford to have any more children isn't there a form of birthcontrol that is, you know kosher?".
"Well" says the rabbi:"there is ofcourse the option of drinking lemonade together.".
"Is that before or after we do the Deed rabbi?", the man asks.
The rabbi takes of his glasses, rubs the bridge of his nose vigorously and answers:" That is instead of doing it."
"We can't afford to have any more children isn't there a form of birthcontrol that is, you know kosher?".
"Well" says the rabbi:"there is ofcourse the option of drinking lemonade together.".
"Is that before or after we do the Deed rabbi?", the man asks.
The rabbi takes of his glasses, rubs the bridge of his nose vigorously and answers:" That is instead of doing it."
From what I've read of Mohler on this subject, and knowing the central importance of world view for him, I think he would be saying that deliberate childlessness is a symptom of a problem. The problem, as he states in the OP is that the "adults" don't want to be completely adult and take responsibility for another life.
If my wife and I had waited until I was mature enough to have kids, I might not have any yet. As it is, they have forced me to grow up and take responsibility more than even being married caused me to grow up.
I think Mohler is more concerned with the attitude of "I will not have kids because I don't want to be bothered by it." Kids take a lot of work, and require me to not just sit around and watch TV all day (which is my tendency) because they want read to, played with etc.
ETA: I think of it like this: if I didn't tithe because I wanted to buy a new big screen TV, and some new movies, and a surround sound system, and eat out at outback every month etc, would that be wrong? I think it would. But in that case, the real sin would be the covetousness and materialism. That heart condition would cause me to not tithe. I get the impression that is the situation Mohler is addressing, but feel free to correct me if I'm wrong.
If my wife and I had waited until I was mature enough to have kids, I might not have any yet. As it is, they have forced me to grow up and take responsibility more than even being married caused me to grow up.
I think Mohler is more concerned with the attitude of "I will not have kids because I don't want to be bothered by it." Kids take a lot of work, and require me to not just sit around and watch TV all day (which is my tendency) because they want read to, played with etc.
ETA: I think of it like this: if I didn't tithe because I wanted to buy a new big screen TV, and some new movies, and a surround sound system, and eat out at outback every month etc, would that be wrong? I think it would. But in that case, the real sin would be the covetousness and materialism. That heart condition would cause me to not tithe. I get the impression that is the situation Mohler is addressing, but feel free to correct me if I'm wrong.
PastorSBC1303
Active Member
I think you may be right on this. As I view it in those terms there may be a problem here.
Boy is that true!
It is a clear sign of the selfishness of many in our society.
PastorSBC,
I can't help but address the birth control issue sort of, because to me that would be the main problem with remaining childless.....how it was accomplished.
In actuality, the woman does not know from month to month how the pill worked to keep her from being pregnant. It works in a three-fold manner, any one of which may be implemented during the cycle. One just doesn't know. At least that is what I learned from my research on the subject when we were trying to decide this issue for ourselves.
When not speaking in general, and without mention of birth control, I still see in the Bible no where that says we ought to try to be in control of whether or not we have children. In fact, the times when people did try not to reproduce they were condemned for it.
Im thinking of Genesis 38:8-10, with Onan. I know Ive heard some say that that was referring to the fact that he refused to raise up children in his brother's name, but wasn't this incident before God gave that law to Moses? It still to me is an instance when preventing reproduction was frowned upon by God.
I also just believe that we ought not take these matters into our own hands, that the creation of life is God's business.
I can't help but address the birth control issue sort of, because to me that would be the main problem with remaining childless.....how it was accomplished.
In actuality, the woman does not know from month to month how the pill worked to keep her from being pregnant. It works in a three-fold manner, any one of which may be implemented during the cycle. One just doesn't know. At least that is what I learned from my research on the subject when we were trying to decide this issue for ourselves.
When not speaking in general, and without mention of birth control, I still see in the Bible no where that says we ought to try to be in control of whether or not we have children. In fact, the times when people did try not to reproduce they were condemned for it.
Im thinking of Genesis 38:8-10, with Onan. I know Ive heard some say that that was referring to the fact that he refused to raise up children in his brother's name, but wasn't this incident before God gave that law to Moses? It still to me is an instance when preventing reproduction was frowned upon by God.
I also just believe that we ought not take these matters into our own hands, that the creation of life is God's business.
PastorSBC1303
Active Member
I am going to ask again that we keep the thread on topic of whether chosen childlessness is a problem or not. If you want to discuss birth control, please go to the other tread.
Is chosen childlessness a problem?
I don't know, I wouldn't think so if a couple decided not to have children. Because they decide that, then they are immature or selfish? Not necessarily. What if a couple decides to sponsor ministries with orphans or something like that instead? We don't know what all people do with the extra time and recourses they have by not raising children.
I don't know, I wouldn't think so if a couple decided not to have children. Because they decide that, then they are immature or selfish? Not necessarily. What if a couple decides to sponsor ministries with orphans or something like that instead? We don't know what all people do with the extra time and recourses they have by not raising children.
T
TaterTot
Guest
I dont think its a problem necesarily. I always thought I would be childess, and I was completely content before I had children. (Little did I know!) But one doesnt have to use pills or surgery to keep from getting pregnant. We are not robots, and I just dont see a mandate that all people who are married have to bear children. Some are too old when they get married. Some have problems. I dont have a scripture to put out there, but I dont think its a sin to not have kids.
menageriekeeper
Active Member
I don't see the problem with couples remaining childless any more than I see a problem with someone remaining single.
Obviously, just because God gave Adam a wife he didn't expect all men to have a wife or Paul wouldn't have said that it was better to remain single! Same with babies, just cause we can doesn't mean it's a sin if we don't.
I really think that sometimes God expects us to use the intelligence that He gave us. Issues like this, let every man be convinced in his own mind.
Obviously, just because God gave Adam a wife he didn't expect all men to have a wife or Paul wouldn't have said that it was better to remain single! Same with babies, just cause we can doesn't mean it's a sin if we don't.
I really think that sometimes God expects us to use the intelligence that He gave us. Issues like this, let every man be convinced in his own mind.
'Obviously, just because God gave Adam a wife he didn't expect all men to have a wife or Paul wouldn't have said that it was better to remain single! Same with babies, just cause we can doesn't mean it's a sin if we don't.'------------------------------------------------------------
yeah, manage, but you gatta admit that singleness and childlessness is rare in the Bible. So a society that is forgoing babies in large numbers for the sake of big houses and tripst to vegas is problably not a healty society.
yeah, manage, but you gatta admit that singleness and childlessness is rare in the Bible. So a society that is forgoing babies in large numbers for the sake of big houses and tripst to vegas is problably not a healty society.
menageriekeeper
Active Member
Bunyon it must our night to disagree.
While I'll agree with the statement, "a society that is forgoingbabies in large numbers for the sake of big houses and tripst to vegas is problably not a healty society". How can you presume that everyone who choses being childless has done it just for materialistic reasons?
Just how rare being both single and childless in the Bible is should probably be left for a different thread, but even right off hand I can think several. (Paul, Timothy, Mary, Martha and Lazerus)
While I'll agree with the statement, "a society that is forgoingbabies in large numbers for the sake of big houses and tripst to vegas is problably not a healty society". How can you presume that everyone who choses being childless has done it just for materialistic reasons?
Just how rare being both single and childless in the Bible is should probably be left for a different thread, but even right off hand I can think several. (Paul, Timothy, Mary, Martha and Lazerus)
PastorSBC1303
Active Member
Are we sure these were single and childless...or does the text just not say?