Christ died for all man

[canadyjd]

God setting aside His Deity in Jesus Christ is UNBIBLICAL HERESY!

How can God ever cease to be GOD?

Your theology is truly warped in many ways

I don’t think he meant Jesus was ever not fully God. I believe Philippians says Jesus “emptied” Himself. There is much debate on what that means.

It seems I’ve heard “setting aside” the use of His divine nature before His death and resurrection.

If this is accurate, then all the miracles Jesus accomplished prior to the resurrection were done in the power of God Holy Spirit.

If accurate, then Jesus lived as a man fully reliant upon God.

Don’t know if I agree with that interpretation, but it’s worth discussion.

peace to you

 

[SavedByGrace]

I don’t think he meant Jesus was ever not fully God. I believe Philippians says Jesus “emptied” Himself. There is much debate on what that means.

It seems I’ve heard “setting aside” the use of His divine nature before His death and resurrection.

If this is accurate, then all the miracles Jesus accomplished prior to the resurrection were done in the power of God Holy Spirit.

If accurate, then Jesus lived as a man fully reliant upon God.

Don’t know if I agree with that interpretation, but it’s worth discussion.

peace to you

Hi, Philippians 2:5-8 is clear that Jesus Christ, Who is eternally Almighty God, and coequal with the Father, "emptied Himself", of this "equality" with the Father, for the duration of His Life on earth. This is also seen in John 17:5, where Jesus says to the Father, to Glorify Him with the Father, with the Glory that they both had from eternity past. etc

 

[canadyjd]

Hi, Philippians 2:5-8 is clear that Jesus Christ, Who is eternally Almighty God, and coequal with the Father, "emptied Himself", of this "equality" with the Father, for the duration of His Life on earth. This is also seen in John 17:5, where Jesus says to the Father, to Glorify Him with the Father, with the Glory that they both had from eternity past. etc

Agreed. I have heard that referred to as “setting aside” His deity… not that He was no longer God, but setting aside the use of His divine nature.

peace to you

 

[SavedByGrace]

setting aside the use of His divine nature.

this is not possible, as His "Divine Nature" is GOD, at the Incarnation Jesus Christ "took on" Human Nature, without sin, as when Adam was Created. Jesus did many things on earth as God, like forgive sins, accepting Worship, being One with the Father, etc

 

[Brightfame52]

There are no goats in the gospel of John. The word does not appear in his gospel. You see something that is not there.

Again, Jesus was very specific about who He died for, His Sheep, if you go beyond that its conjecture, not according to His word, and all people arent His Sheep for whom He died, like these here Jn 10:26

26 But ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep, as I said unto you.

 

[Brightfame52]

Yet another "taint so" post presenting obvious falsehood.

2 Peter 2:1 says (NASB)

But false prophets also appeared among the people, just as there will also be false teachers among you, who will secretly introduce destructive heresies, even denying the Master who bought them, bringing swift destruction upon themselves.​

The Master is Christ Jesus, and He bought those heading for "swift destruction" by dying on the cross.

2 Pet 2:1 doesnt say Christ died for them, nor does it say He died for them who will never be saved, you are providing a false witness here friend.

 

[canadyjd]

this is not possible, as His "Divine Nature" is GOD, at the Incarnation Jesus Christ "took on" Human Nature, without sin, as when Adam was Created. Jesus did many things on earth as God, like forgive sins, accepting Worship, being One with the Father, etc

You are correct. Jesus forgave sins and accepted worship. He is fully God and as God could do those things.

That is a great argument that He did not “set aside” the use of His divine attributes.

peace to you

 

[JD731]

Again, Jesus was very specific about who He died for, His Sheep, if you go beyond that its conjecture, not according to His word, and all people arent His Sheep for whom He died, like these here Jn 10:26

26 But ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep, as I said unto you.

Er, uuh, I am trying to keep you from conjecture and going beyond what is said. You suppose that if one is not a sheep he is a goat. How you get that idea you do not say. You presume it to be true without a context or a mention of it. This is called in scriptures a presumptuous sin and is something we should all be aware of and do as the Psalmist in his song in Ps 19 and pray the Lord will deliver us from them so they do not have dominion over us. This dominating false doctrine has overcome your rationale, your reason, and your logic.

Ps 19:13 Keep back thy servant also from presumptuous sins; let them not have dominion over me: then shall I be upright, and I shall be innocent from the great transgression.
Ps 19:14 Let the words of my mouth, and the meditation of my heart, be acceptable in thy sight, O LORD, my strength, and my redeemer.

Here are all the mentions of "goats" in the New Testament scriptures for your perusal.

Mt 25:32 And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats:
Mt 25:33 And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left.

Heb 9:12 Neither by the blood of goats and calves, but by his own blood he entered in once into the holy place, having obtained eternal redemption for us.
Heb 9:13 For if the blood of bulls and of goats, and the ashes of an heifer sprinkling the unclean, sanctifieth to the purifying of the flesh:
Heb 9:19 For when Moses had spoken every precept to all the people according to the law, he took the blood of calves and of goats, with water, and scarlet wool, and hyssop, and sprinkled both the book, and all the people,
Heb 10:4 For it is not possible that the blood of bulls and of goats should take away sins.

None of these verses in their context says if you are not a sheep you are a goat.

 

[canadyjd]

…..You suppose that if one is not a sheep he is a goat. How you get that idea you do not say…..

Mt 25:32 And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats:….

Mt 25:33 And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left…..

None of these verses in their context says if you are not a sheep you are a goat.

The context of Matthew 25, if you would have kept reading, is that all of mankind is separated into two groups… sheep and goats. Sheep go to heaven… goats go to eternal torment.

Very Clearly, Jesus is teaching all of mankind is either a sheep (saved) or a goat (unsaved).

That is the context of Matthew 25.

peace to you

 

[atpollard]

this is not possible, as His "Divine Nature" is GOD, at the Incarnation Jesus Christ "took on" Human Nature, without sin, as when Adam was Created.

Part of DIVINE NATURE is OMNIPRESENCE.
Was Jesus OMNIPRESENT as he traveled with the Apostles prior to His death and resurrection?
If Jesus was NOT omnipresent, then “setting aside” at least SOME of His Divine nature (omnipresence) was more than POSSIBLE, it was REALITY.

You are too quick with your emphatic declarations.

 

[canadyjd]

Part of DIVINE NATURE is OMNIPRESENCE.
Was Jesus OMNIPRESENT as he traveled with the Apostles prior to His death and resurrection?
If Jesus was NOT omnipresent, then “setting aside” at least SOME of His Divine nature (omnipresence) was more than POSSIBLE, it was REALITY.

You are too quick with your emphatic declarations.

That is a very good point. It appears st least some attributes were “set aside”.

peace to you

 

[SavedByGrace]

Part of DIVINE NATURE is OMNIPRESENCE.
Was Jesus OMNIPRESENT as he traveled with the Apostles prior to His death and resurrection?
If Jesus was NOT omnipresent, then “setting aside” at least SOME of His Divine nature (omnipresence) was more than POSSIBLE, it was REALITY.

You are too quick with your emphatic declarations.

Read Original of John 3.13 as in the KJV

John 3:13
And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven.

Jesus Himself says that while He was speaking on earth, at the same time He was present in heaven!

Because of what this verse reaches it was corrupted in the modern versions

 

[JD731]

The context of Matthew 25, if you would have kept reading, is that all of mankind is separated into two groups… sheep and goats. Sheep go to heaven… goats go to eternal torment.

Very Clearly, Jesus is teaching all of mankind is either a sheep (saved) or a goat (unsaved).

That is the context of Matthew 25.

peace to you

No. the context is the Olivet Discourse. This discourse is a prophecy given by Jesus Christ at the end of the day, two days before he was put to death by his own nation. It is a prophecy concerning the time from then to now and in the future. It is Jesus answering 3 questions posed to him by 4 of his disciples, Peter, James, John, and Andrew. The two days being symbolic of this present age, each of the two days standing for 1000 years each. BTW, it has now been two days since this prophecy as this time is counted. Therefore, if this does not happen sometimes in the near future you will know I am wrong about it.

Mt 24:3 And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world (aion = age)?

So, here are the "goat" words in this prophecy. They do not stand for individuals but nations. They will be judged by how they processed the preaching of the "gospel of the kingdom is at hand" by how they treated the persecuted Jews.

Mt 25:32 And before him (King Jesus sitting on his throne) shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as (figurative language) a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats:
Mt 25:33 And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left.

They are not actual goats and sheep but the metaphors are used to differentiate the nations who aided his elect people Israel (the sheep) while she was under the awful persecutor, the man of sin and those nations who join with him. These Israelites are driven out of their land by him during the time of Jacob's trouble. He is really speaking about nations here. This will take place in time after the events of Re 19.

Mt 25:31 When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory:
Re 19:6 And I heard as it were the voice of a great multitude, and as the voice of many waters, and as the voice of mighty thunderings, saying, Alleluia: for the Lord God omnipotent reigneth.
11 And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war.
12 His eyes were as a flame of fire, and on his head were many crowns; and he had a name written, that no man knew, but he himself.
13 And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God.
14 And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean.
15 And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.
16 And he hath on his vesture and on his thigh a name written, KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS.

Matt 26:1 And it came to pass, when Jesus had finished all these sayings, he said unto his disciples,
2 Ye know that after two days is the feast of the passover, and the Son of man is betrayed to be crucified.

The last day is the 1000 year day, the third day, when Jesus Christ will rule over the whole earth through Israel in Jerusalem. This is the sabbath rest for the world. He structured his rule after the model of Moses when he led the children of Israel out of Egypt with 12 heads over the 12 tribes and the 70 elders ruling under them.

To have the nations standing before our Lord in judgement requires that they be soundly subjugated to him as their judge.

If someone would like to say this has already happened, and some do, please give me irrefutable evidence so I can throw my Bible away as useless literature and get on with my life without it.

I am not worried because no one can. The sheep nations will enter into the kingdom of Jesus Christ. They are sheep because they are associated with him and his kingdom and in the beginning every person in the nations are saved.

This is the truth! Believe the words of scripture.

 

[canadyjd]

So, people don’t stand in judgment before God.. nations stand in judgment???

We disagree. Thanks for the conversation

peace to you

 

[MrW]

If you were blind, you would have no sin.

 

[JD731]

So, people don’t stand in judgment before God.. nations stand in judgment???

We disagree. Thanks for the conversation

peace to you

Yes people stand in judgement of their works to give account of them. The church at the judgement seat of Christ in heaven and the lost people at the great white throne in Re 20.

 

[Brightfame52]

Er, uuh, I am trying to keep you from conjecture and going beyond what is said. You suppose that if one is not a sheep he is a goat. How you get that idea you do not say. You presume it to be true without a context or a mention of it. This is called in scriptures a presumptuous sin and is something we should all be aware of and do as the Psalmist in his song in Ps 19 and pray the Lord will deliver us from them so they do not have dominion over us. This dominating false doctrine has overcome your rationale, your reason, and your logic.

Ps 19:13 Keep back thy servant also from presumptuous sins; let them not have dominion over me: then shall I be upright, and I shall be innocent from the great transgression.
Ps 19:14 Let the words of my mouth, and the meditation of my heart, be acceptable in thy sight, O LORD, my strength, and my redeemer.

Here are all the mentions of "goats" in the New Testament scriptures for your perusal.

Mt 25:32 And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats:
Mt 25:33 And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left.

Heb 9:12 Neither by the blood of goats and calves, but by his own blood he entered in once into the holy place, having obtained eternal redemption for us.
Heb 9:13 For if the blood of bulls and of goats, and the ashes of an heifer sprinkling the unclean, sanctifieth to the purifying of the flesh:
Heb 9:19 For when Moses had spoken every precept to all the people according to the law, he took the blood of calves and of goats, with water, and scarlet wool, and hyssop, and sprinkled both the book, and all the people,
Heb 10:4 For it is not possible that the blood of bulls and of goats should take away sins.

None of these verses in their context says if you are not a sheep you are a goat.

Again, Jesus was very specific about who He died for, His Sheep Jn 10:11,15, if you go beyond that its conjecture, not according to His word, and all people aren't His Sheep for whom He died, like these here Jn 10:26

26 But ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep, as I said unto you.

 

[37818]

Sheep go to heaven…

You mean the New Heaven and Earth. After Revelation 20:11-15 is Revelation 21.

 

[JD731]

Again, Jesus was very specific about who He died for, His Sheep Jn 10:11,15, if you go beyond that its conjecture, not according to His word, and all people aren't His Sheep for whom He died, like these here Jn 10:26

26 But ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep, as I said unto you.

Jesus did not say, “ye are not sheep,” he said ye are not MY sheep. Only the sheep whom the Father gives to him are his sheep. Who are the sheep the Father gives to him?

the answer is here.
John 6:44-45
44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.
45 It is written in the prophets, And they shall be all taught of God. Every man therefore that hath heard, and hath learned of the Father, cometh unto me

Those who know the OT scriptures will recognize him and will believe in him and come to him. Those in John 10 who were not his did not recognize him and come to him and because of this had never believed in him. They resisted him.

It is that simple!

 

[Silverhair]

Jesus was specific about who He died for in Jn 10, and goats aren't Sheep.

I agree God is specific as to whom Christ died for:
Heb 2:9 But we see Jesus, ... that He, by the grace of God, might taste death for everyone.
1Jn 2:2 And He Himself is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only but also for the whole world.
1Ti 2:6 who gave Himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time,
1Ti 4:10 ... who is the Savior of all men, especially of those who believe.
Rom 5:6 ...Christ died for the ungodly.
Rom 5:8 ... while we were still sinners, Christ died for us.

And you may ask why would He do such a thing for us siinners?
1Ti 2:3 For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Savior,
1Ti 2:4 who desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth.

So God's plan was clear then as it is now.
Joh 3:17 "For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world through Him might be saved.

So if you are a sinner then Christ died so that you might be saved by the grace of God.