Christ our Prophet, Priest, King: Hebrews 1:3

[Amy.G]

SS is for the saved to be discipled. Although the lost or seeking are certainly welcome to attend, they usually won't.

I've never heard of SS existing for the purpose of evangelizing.

As far as deep teaching goes, there should be classes for the more mature Christians, but there should also be classes for new Christians and all ranges of people who are at a different places in their spiritual growth.

 

[Allan]

SS is for the saved to be discipled. Although the lost or seeking are certainly welcome to attend, they usually won't.

I've never heard of SS existing for the purpose of evangelizing.

As far as deep teaching goes, there should be classes for the more mature Christians, but there should also be classes for new Christians and all ranges of people who are at a different places in their spiritual growth.

Actually that was PART of it's intent when it was first incorporated,

It WAS for discipleship but was ALSO geared more so toward an evangelistic aspect. This in relation to the group reaching out, using their class as the outreach tool, out to bring in and help 'other' people understand the scriptures in a relaxed and open atmostphere compared to the typical dictorial type of teaching environment most were used to.

Actually, it is through this ministry I have used to explode my youth groups, and am currently helping to incorporate it into this church, as well as a means in reaching out to others. It this 'already established ministry' that I have typically used to help grow a church and one of the aspects in maturing it's current membership.

 

[sag38]

Sunday School does not have as its primary purpose discipleship. That is for "Discipleship" training. Sunday School is the door way into the life of the church. Very few ever get saved as a direct result of the worship service or a discipleship class. Most likely, someone, somewhere, has been working with that person, outside of the worship service. Generally it's the pastor. I am leading my church to become a Sunday School church where more and more are saved as a direct result of Sunday School classes that focus outward rather than inward. I'm only one man and can impact so few people. But, imagine each of my six adult classes becoming evangelistic in thier overall ministry. Pretty soon there will be more than six classes. More will come into a saving knowledge of the Lord because evangelism is no longer the sole responsibility of the pastor but a responsibility that the entire congregation, through the Sunday School, has embraced. Now, that's what Sunday School is intended to be. Has no here ever heard of "Flake's Formula." Has no one read any of Ken Hemphill's books on Sunday School? Has Thom Rainer's studies of growing chruches fallen on deaf ears? Is no one listening? Most(not all) SBC churches and non-SBC churches that are reaching and keeping people have at the core of thier effectiveness an evangelistic Sunday School ministry.

 

[sag38]

Amy, I'd be interested to know what your pastor thinks. I would imagine there is a disconnect there. In fact, I would be willing to say that he thinks the same way I do. I could be wrong and if so I'll eat my hat (not really). But, I'll stand corrected.

 

[Robert Snow]

So, your class has no concern for the lost so long as you have your deep fellowship and Bible study. You have just told the lost they are not welcome nor sought after by your class.

You have a real problem reading what isn't written. No where did I say we didn't have a concern for the lost, nor did I tell anyone they are not welcome. I just don't think that everything in bible study has to revolve around the basics, even Paul, in Hebrews, talks about moving on to the meat of the Word. I guess you don't think Paul has a concern for the lost either.

 

[Grasshopper]

So Grasshopper. Tell me about your Sunday School class. How many people, as a result of the ministry of your Sunday School Class have come into a saving knowledge of Jesus Christ?

Our class was started from scratch 5 years ago when a new Pastor was hired after the last one just up and left. The pastor taught the class beginning with about 5 or 6 of us. It is now around 25-30. We are a relatively small church. I can't think of any who came to Christ because of the class. We have numerous other methods of evangelism.

How many new classes were started as a result of the ministry of your Sunday School class? How many new teachers and workers has your class produced?

As the church grew with the new pastor many left to teach other classes.

I hope I'm wrong but I would bet, from your attitude, that's its very low, if not zero.

Well since you can speculate on me I'll do the same to you. My guess is you are IFB who uses only the KJV. Education secular and Christian is not a high priority in your church. Your members probably know what they believe but not why. I doubt many members frequent message boards because they would be severly limited in their ability to have an intelligent conversation. I could be wrong, but that's just what I gather from your attitude.

In fact, you just said so. "None, rarely to the lost show up for Sunday school." Your class has grown so deep in Bible study and fellowship that it has become a closed group.

Really? You could have fooled me. Most churches, mine included, could hardly be guilty of teaching too deep. In fact this is my criticism of the modern church. Theology and Doctrine take a back seat to evangelism. There should be a balance because you can't have one without the other.

So, you have your deep Bible study and fellowship but why are their few lost people attending your Sunday School? Now that's a question worth exploring.

Becuase we actually think sunday school ought the include the "school" part. Not sitting with lost people singing Jesus Loves Me. Faith comes by hearing and hearing by the Word of God.

You've just contradicted yourself. Now you want me to start a class where we try to go deeper in the Word. I thought we were suppose to dumb it down for the lost.

No I have not. It's not up to your Sunday School teacher to go deeper for you. If you are growing in your faith you can learn do that for yourself.

What is exactly the teacher there for? Fellowship co-oridinator? If teachers are unnecessary for teaching then what exactly is their purpose?

And, no it's not about dumbing anything down.

Of course it is. You seem to poo poo the noton of "going deeper". Perhaps I'm in the minority but I believe churches should be minature seminaries.

When I taught SS I had several in my class who did not know Jesus. I had others who were not very adept in the Word (baby Christians). And, I had those who were mature in their faith.

Then at least one of these groups is being ill served.

It was a challenge to keep it all on an even keel and interesting for all three groups. And, I didn't rely on SS material, nor criticize it. I used the tools given to me and developed lessons that hopefully were meaningful to each level of understanding.

Didn't you just tell us to teach ourselves? Isn't learning more than you knew before the definition of going deeper?

In doing so I saw some of these members come to know Christ and grow. Some left the class to teach other classes. You see? By teaching and leading my class I personally grew deeper in my understanding of God's Word and in my relationship with Him.

You did, but what about those you teach? Or is teaching all about you?

I didn't rely on a teacher, literature, etc. to feed me. I, by God's grace, was learning to feed myself through serving others.

You see, this is why I say you de-value education. Shut down the seminaries, close the bookstores and let's join up with Saddleback.

 

[sag38]

Ok Grasshopper, you can stick to your sarcasim and I'll do what I believe is right. Have fun!!

 

[Amy.G]

Sag, I'll talk to my pastor about this tonight if I get a chance. But I don't know anything about SS being the evangelical arm of the church. If it was originally designed to do that, it was before I became active in church life.

The Bible says that God gave some to be teachers. If we are depend on ourselves to go deep into God's word, why do we need teachers? And I don't know anything about "discipleship teaching". When do you do that?

But I do know that we cannot possibly be good evangelizers if we are not grounded in God's word. There are too many people who are biblically illiterate in this day and age and witnessing for these people is nearly impossible because the unchurched many times knows more scripture than those who attend church each week.

 

[Marcia]

Christ our Prophet, Priest, King
Hebrews 1:3
​

It is a shame that this gem of a book is so often neglected by many Christians. They don't know what they are missing.

Not neglected by me or my pastor!

It's my favorite NT book, and I wrote a paper on Hebrews for my NT2 course last summer.

And my pastor is starting a whole series on Hebrews and my SS class is as well.

 

[Marcia]

To reach the lost and unchurched. Most Sunday School classes exist, as their main purpose, for fellowship and Bible Study. Few exisit, as thier number on priority, to reach the lost. Look around. How many in your Sunday School class today were new to the faith or in need of Christ? How many Sunday School classes have an active plan in place to actually begin to reach out? When you start to hear, "I'm not being fed," you can be assured that Sunday School class (or at least a portion of its members) have lost focus. The focus has become inward as opposed to outward. Mature and growing Christians learn to feed themselves. They give of themselves. Selfish Chrisitans on the other hand cry out, "I need to be fed more," or "it doesn't go deep enough." Study for your self. Start a class and start teaching. In doing so you will grow, you will go deeper, and in the process help someone else along the way.

I disagree that SS should be mainly for the lost. Discipleship and good Bible study is sorely missing at many churches. I think the church is for believers, to equip people they send out to evangelize.

However, I do think the church needs to aware of lost people or new believers who come to the services or SS class. We can teach and disciple believers while at the same time paying attention to others. For example, churches could have a new believers class or a "basics of the Christian faith" type class. Our church has a doctrines of the faith class for seekers, new believers, and any others; we make sure that these people have some contact and options.

 

[sag38]

If you disagree then you disagree. But, I will say, in my opinion, that it is sad that the greatest tool a church could have for reaching the lost and growing a church is so neglected and misunderstood.

You have a real problem reading what isn't written
I'm not saying your class is cold hearted. Rather, because the focus is strictly on Bible study and fellowship there is little concern for reaching the lost.

 

[Amy.G]

If you disagree then you disagree. But, I will say, in my opinion, that it is sad that the greatest tool a church could have for reaching the lost and growing a church is so neglected and misunderstood.

You have a real problem reading what isn't written
I'm not saying your class is cold hearted. Rather, because the focus is strictly on Bible study and fellowship there is little concern for reaching the lost.

Exactly how do you use the SS class for evangelism?