Christ sent me not to baptize

[Darrell C]

38 And Peter said unto them, Repent ye, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ unto the remission of your sins; and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. Acts 2

And if you sincerely believe sins are forgiven because men are water baptized I am truly sorry for you.

How exactly does the Baptism of Christ work, KR? Baptismal Regeneration?

Not at all, and John makes that clear:


Matthew 3:11-12
King James Version (KJV)

11 I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance. but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost, and with fire:

12 Whose fan is in his hand, and he will throughly purge his floor, and gather his wheat into the garner; but he will burn up the chaff with unquenchable fire.


See Christ baptizing with water here?

How about here:


Acts 1:4-5
King James Version (KJV)

4 And, being assembled together with them, commanded them that they should not depart from Jerusalem, but wait for the promise of the Father, which, saith he, ye have heard of me.

5 For John truly baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost not many days hence.


Were the Disciples of Christ baptized with water not many days hence from this statement of Christ? There is no record of them ever being baptized in the Name of Christ, none whatsoever.

What we do see is they receive the Promise, which is the Promised Spirit taught by Him (which you can read about in John 14 and 16 in detail).

We don't see water saving anyone here:


Acts 10:39-44
King James Version (KJV)

39 And we are witnesses of all things which he did both in the land of the Jews, and in Jerusalem; whom they slew and hanged on a tree:

40 Him God raised up the third day, and shewed him openly;

41 Not to all the people, but unto witnesses chosen before God, even to us, who did eat and drink with him after he rose from the dead.

42 And he commanded us to preach unto the people, and to testify that it is he which was ordained of God to be the Judge of quick and dead.

43 To him give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins.

44 While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the word.


Do you understand the "Word" in view here is the Gospel of Jesus Christ?

Do you understand that the Holy Ghost falling on them is the moment that they are...Baptized with the Holy Ghost? Baptized into Christ? Immersed in eternal union with God?

And that Remission of sins, as it is always taught in the New Testament...is a result of faith in Christ? Believing on Him?

Peter defines the Baptism with the Holy Ghost, and how a man is saved, here...


Acts 11:13-18
King James Version (KJV)

13 And he shewed us how he had seen an angel in his house, which stood and said unto him, Send men to Joppa, and call for Simon, whose surname is Peter;

14 Who shall tell thee words, whereby thou and all thy house shall be saved.


Men are saved through the water which does cleanse, the Gospel of Christ. Peter speaks the words, The Word...of the Gospel, and identifies this as the means of salvation, not water baptism. Now let's see what happens when men hear the Gospel and believe:


15 And as I began to speak, the Holy Ghost fell on them, as on us at the beginning.

16 Then remembered I the word of the Lord, how that he said, John indeed baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost.


Doesn't say "John baptized with water, henceforth my disciples with baptize you with water, because...

...Christ is the Baptizer.

And He doesn't use water.

Here, Peter makes it clear that when the Holy Ghost falls on Cornelius and His household...they are Baptized with the Holy Ghost.


17 Forasmuch then as God gave them the like gift as he did unto us, who believed on the Lord Jesus Christ; what was I, that I could withstand God?

18 When they heard these things, they held their peace, and glorified God, saying, Then hath God also to the Gentiles granted repentance unto life.


John's Baptism did not bestow eternal life, only the Baptism with the Holy Ghost can do that.

Baptismal Regeneration is a Catholic Doctrine, and has no place among Baptists. Not the Baptists of the First Century, not the Baptists through the centuries, and not The Baptizer...Jesus Christ.


Continued...

 

[Darrell C]

20 that aforetime were disobedient, when the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls, were saved through water:
21 which also after a true likeness doth now save you, even baptism, not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the interrogation of a good conscience toward God, through the resurrection of Jesus Christ; 1 Pet 3

Catholics and those of the Church of Christ always try to play this verse to support their heretical view, but it works for them no more than it works for you.

First, do you not see that Peter makes it clear that a physical baptism is not what he is speaking about? It is not a physical cleansing, as were the baptisms of Judaism.

Secondly, do you really think men baptize other men into Jesus Christ? Christ is the Baptizer, and He does not use water, John the Baptist made that very clear, as did Christ, as did Peter (in Acts 11), as did Paul.

Third, Note in the "like figure" that it was God Who saved the eight souls, not with water, but from the water. God is still the One saving, He is Sovereign.

Fourth, do you really not see...through the Resurrection of Jesus Christ?


We are born of God through the cleansing water of the Word, specifically...the Gospel of Jesus Christ.


James 1:18
King James Version (KJV)

18 Of his own will begat he us with the word of truth, that we should be a kind of firstfruits of his creatures.


1 Peter 1
King James Version (KJV)


2 Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied.

3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,


18 Forasmuch as ye know that ye were not redeemed with corruptible things, as silver and gold, from your vain conversation received by tradition from your fathers;

19 But with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot:

20 Who verily was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you,

21 Who by him do believe in God, that raised him up from the dead, and gave him glory; that your faith and hope might be in God.

22 Seeing ye have purified your souls in obeying the truth through the Spirit unto unfeigned love of the brethren, see that ye love one another with a pure heart fervently:

23 Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.


This is the water spoken of here:


Ezekiel 36:24-27
King James Version (KJV)

24 For I will take you from among the heathen, and gather you out of all countries, and will bring you into your own land.

25 Then will I sprinkle clean water upon you, and ye shall be clean: from all your filthiness, and from all your idols, will I cleanse you.

26 A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.

27 And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them.


...and here...


Ephesians 5:25-27
King James Version (KJV)

25 Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it;

26 That he might sanctify and cleanse it with the washing of water by the word,

27 That he might present it to himself a glorious church, not having spot, or wrinkle, or any such thing; but that it should be holy and without blemish.


So while you and others of Catholic Tradition might endorse Baptismal Regeneration, I cannot, because it stands in direct contradiction to what Scripture teaches.

Christ is the Baptizer, not Priests, not Pastors, not Ministers.

And He does not use water.


God bless.

 

[kyredneck]

-unable to post-

 

[Darrell C]

-unable to post-​

Take your time, I have to get out of here anyway, lol. Lot to do today.

Hope everyone has a blessed day in the Lord.


God bless.

 

[kyredneck]

<-------------->​

 

[kyredneck]

So you believe men are saved...through water Baptism?

Yes. There definitely was a deliverance for those who were water baptized. As usual, audience relevance is important here.

Did you read the post?

I normally don’t ‘read’ your posts because you tend to make them too long and cumbersome to digest. I ‘breezed over’ this one in order to get the gist of it.

It explains that salvation is not tied to water Baptism, but being Baptized with the Holy Ghost:

I’m pretty sure that the audience to whom those passages were addressed understood that water was intended.

Its a given, kind of like "Only the Elect will be saved." Of course only the elect will be saved, its a given.

Lol, it’s a given that evangelicals in general have ‘gommed up’ that word ‘saved’ to always mean ‘heaven bound’ and fail to see the temporal deliverance that’s intended in the text.

And if you sincerely believe sins are forgiven because men are water baptized

Yes, those Jews who repented of the law covenant, and were water baptized as an act of profession of Christ, were delivered from the guilt by default and subsequent curses of said law covenant that were soon to fall upon that generation.

How exactly does the Baptism of Christ work, KR? Baptismal Regeneration?

No where have I tied the heavenly birth to water baptism.

“(On Matthew 3:9)
"To fly from the wrath to come. These words respect the very last words in the Old Testament, lest I come, and smite the earth with a curse, (Mal. iv. 6,) and denote the most miserable destruction of the nation, and now almost ready to fall upon them. The receiving of John's baptism signed, and fenced those that received it from the ruin that was just coming. To this belongs that of St. Peter, (1 Epis. iii. 20, 21,) in that manner as Noah and his sons were by water delivered from the flood, so also baptism now, the antitype of that type, saveth us from the deluge of divine indignation, which in a short time is to overthrow the Jewish nation. Those that are baptized are said to fly from the wrath to come; i. e. the wrath of God, that was not long hence to destroy the nation by a most sad overthrow.' Heb. et Talm. Exerc. in toe.. ' Baptism was, beside other tendencies of it, as a badge, whereby those that received it and stuck to it were marked out for safety and preservation against that destruction that was to come upon that nation for unbelief. Therefore John construes their coming to be baptized, their " fleeing from the wrath to come ; " and Peter, (1 Epis. iii. 21,) in the same sense, doth say that " baptism doth now save : " as the ark hath done in the destruction of the old world, so this from the destruction now coming: and to his admonition to "repent and be baptized," he addeth, "save yourselves from this untoward generation." (Acts ii. 40.)" (Harm. Evan. sec ix.)”
Bishop John Lightfoot, (1601-1675), English scholar partially responsible for formulating the Westminster Confession.

 

[Darrell C]

Yes. There definitely was a deliverance for those who were water baptized. As usual audience relevance is important here.

You have ignored everything that has been said.

Nowhere do we see men saved in any way from water baptism.

I normally don’t ‘read’ your posts because you tend to make them too long and cumbersome to digest.

I don't think them being long is why you cannot digest them, my friend.

I have carefully laid out why water baptism does not save in the previous posts, and Who does, and what medium is used when He baptizes men in the Holy Ghost.

I ‘breezed over’ this one in order to get the gist of it.

And your response is "Yes. There definitely was a deliverance for those who were water baptized."

Now, if you care to actually address the Scripture and the points raised, instead of continuing to offer up opinion, we might just have the opportunity for a discussion.

I’m pretty sure that the audience to whom those passages were addressed understood that water was intended.

When we look at the relevant passages concerning salvation and baptism, it is pretty clear:


Matthew 3:11-12
King James Version (KJV)

11 I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance. but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost, and with fire:

12 Whose fan is in his hand, and he will throughly purge his floor, and gather his wheat into the garner; but he will burn up the chaff with unquenchable fire.


Acts 1:4-5
King James Version (KJV)

4 And, being assembled together with them, commanded them that they should not depart from Jerusalem, but wait for the promise of the Father, which, saith he, ye have heard of me.

5 For John truly baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost not many days hence.


So instead of breezing through these, how about trying to defend the Catholic doctrine you are presenting. They too believe men are saved through water baptism. In fact, men can take a little child, throw some water on them, and poof, you got yourself a new Christian.

That is what you are teaching.

There is no redemption whatsoever in water baptism.

Continued...

 

[Darrell C]

Lol, it’s a given that evangelicals in general have ‘gommed up’ that word ‘saved’ to always mean ‘heaven bound’ and fail to see the temporal deliverance that’s intended in the text.

While I view that as a false argument, nevertheless, what has that to do with me or anything I have said.

Here is the salvation I have presented:



Matthew 3:11-12
King James Version (KJV)

11 I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance. but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost, and with fire:

12 Whose fan is in his hand, and he will throughly purge his floor, and gather his wheat into the garner; but he will burn up the chaff with unquenchable fire.


See Christ baptizing with water here?

How about here:


Acts 1:4-5
King James Version (KJV)

4 And, being assembled together with them, commanded them that they should not depart from Jerusalem, but wait for the promise of the Father, which, saith he, ye have heard of me.

5 For John truly baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost not many days hence.


Were the Disciples of Christ baptized with water not many days hence from this statement of Christ? There is no record of them ever being baptized in the Name of Christ, none whatsoever.

What we do see is they receive the Promise, which is the Promised Spirit taught by Him (which you can read about in John 14 and 16 in detail).

We don't see water saving anyone here:


Acts 10:39-44
King James Version (KJV)

39 And we are witnesses of all things which he did both in the land of the Jews, and in Jerusalem; whom they slew and hanged on a tree:

40 Him God raised up the third day, and shewed him openly;

41 Not to all the people, but unto witnesses chosen before God, even to us, who did eat and drink with him after he rose from the dead.

42 And he commanded us to preach unto the people, and to testify that it is he which was ordained of God to be the Judge of quick and dead.

43 To him give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins.

44 While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the word.


Do you understand the "Word" in view here is the Gospel of Jesus Christ?

Do you understand that the Holy Ghost falling on them is the moment that they are...Baptized with the Holy Ghost? Baptized into Christ? Immersed in eternal union with God?

And that Remission of sins, as it is always taught in the New Testament...is a result of faith in Christ? Believing on Him?

Peter defines the Baptism with the Holy Ghost, and how a man is saved, here...


Acts 11:13-18
King James Version (KJV)

13 And he shewed us how he had seen an angel in his house, which stood and said unto him, Send men to Joppa, and call for Simon, whose surname is Peter;

14 Who shall tell thee words, whereby thou and all thy house shall be saved.


Men are saved through the water which does cleanse, the Gospel of Christ. Peter speaks the words, The Word...of the Gospel, and identifies this as the means of salvation, not water baptism. Now let's see what happens when men hear the Gospel and believe:


15 And as I began to speak, the Holy Ghost fell on them, as on us at the beginning.

16 Then remembered I the word of the Lord, how that he said, John indeed baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost.


Doesn't say "John baptized with water, henceforth my disciples with baptize you with water, because...

...Christ is the Baptizer.

And He doesn't use water.

Here, Peter makes it clear that when the Holy Ghost falls on Cornelius and His household...they are Baptized with the Holy Ghost.


17 Forasmuch then as God gave them the like gift as he did unto us, who believed on the Lord Jesus Christ; what was I, that I could withstand God?

18 When they heard these things, they held their peace, and glorified God, saying, Then hath God also to the Gentiles granted repentance unto life.


John's Baptism did not bestow eternal life, only the Baptism with the Holy Ghost can do that.

Baptismal Regeneration is a Catholic Doctrine, and has no place among Baptists. Not the Baptists of the First Century, not the Baptists through the centuries, and not The Baptizer...Jesus Christ.


This clearly shows the only Baptism where one is saved (and by that I mean Eternally Redeemed) is the Baptism with the Holy Ghost, performed by The Baptizer, Jesus Christ.


Continued...

 

[Darrell C]

And it will only take about a minute to read that post, KR, so give it whirl.


God bless.

 

[Darrell C]

Yes, those Jews who repented of the law covenant,

Show me where someone is said to need to "repent of the Law Covenant?"

Repentance was needed because they broke the Covenant.

and were water baptized as an act of profession of Christ,

And if you had bothered to read the posts you would see that I made it clear that just as those baptized by John had already repented (and those who had not were rebuked and turned away), even so those baptized in the Name of Christ profess to have been saved by Him already.

The Baptisms do not bring about the reason they are being baptized.

were delivered from the default curses of said law covenant that were soon to fall upon that generation.

Christians are not delivered from the Law.

They still die (physically), for example, for sin. Ananias and Sapphira, and those partaking of Communion unworthily are an example that this principle still exists.

There was nothing flawed in the Covenant of Law, it was Man who did not keep the Covenant that was flawed, hence the need for the New Covenant.

No where have I tied the heavenly birth to water baptism.

You have:

Yes. There definitely was a deliverance for those who were water baptized. As usual audience relevance is important here.

One is not saved and not born again. One is not redeemed and not born again.

What deliverance is it that you speak of, if not salvation, which is the very point I was making...

...water baptism in no way contributes to Salvation.


God bless.

 

[kyredneck]

Nowhere do we see men saved in any way from water baptism.

38 And Peter said unto them, Repent ye, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ unto the remission of your sins; and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.
39 For to you is the promise, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call unto him.
40 And with many other words he testified, and exhorted them, saying, Save yourselves from this crooked generation.
41 They then that received his word were baptized: and there were added unto them in that day about three thousand souls. Acts 2

16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that disbelieveth shall be condemned. Mk 16

Your focus is on the thing here, water baptism. You should take a good long look at 'saved'. 'Saved' is not absolutely always used in the eternal sense.

 

[kyredneck]

Nah, I'm done.

 

[Darrell C]

38 And Peter said unto them, Repent ye, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ unto the remission of your sins; and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.
39 For to you is the promise, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call unto him.
40 And with many other words he testified, and exhorted them, saying, Save yourselves from this crooked generation.
41 They then that received his word were baptized: and there were added unto them in that day about three thousand souls. Acts 2

16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that disbelieveth shall be condemned. Mk 16

Your focus is on the thing here, water baptism. You should take a good long look at 'saved'. 'Saved' is not absolutely always used in the eternal sense.

I agree, so tell me why you say...

Yes. There definitely was a deliverance for those who were water baptized. As usual, audience relevance is important here.

Now you are saying you are not meaning this in a salvific context?

Good. That was the very point I have made from the start.

Water baptism saves no-one.

Again, I have carefully laid out how men ar saved through the Baptism of Christ, not being baptized in His Name. If you disagree with what has been said, point out what it is you disagree with.


God bless.

 

[Darrell C]

Nah, I'm done.

Good. We certainly don't need "Baptists" teaching Baptismal Regeneration.


God bless.

 

[poor-in-spirit]

Interesting argument which will never be understood nor settled intellectually.

Water baptism in itself never saves; conversely however, "belief without obedience" never saves either.

Christ's commission to all who follow Him from that point on is in 3 parts for a reason.

Belief without demonstration and continued growth is nothing more than mental acknowledgement. The True Gospel is life changing while on earth, not some get outta hell free card to be kept under a bushel until death.

Careful what "Gospel" you preach people, the outcome of your own Judgment depends on it.

The heresy of the unregenerate "gospel" is far more wide spread and dangerous than any of the other heresies prevalent in our time.