Christ The Calvinist

[npetreley]

Originally posted by Timtoolman:
You might be on too something there. I think that there is much more to God then anger, wrath and judgement. Guess I like to hear about the Mercy, Love and Grace also. I find however though that most churches, specially reformed/calvinist tend to concentrate on only the former.

I'd like to know which churches you attend. I'm still looking for a good church in this area, and although I consider myself Baptist, I've even tried a reformed Presbyterian church out of desperation to hear the Bible taught accurately. IMO they did teach it accurately, and - to their credit - they were very much into outreach and evangelism, which is something people seem to say is foreign to Presbys. But it wasn't "home", so I didn't stay there.

Regardless, I haven't heard anything preached from the pulpit about the wrath of God in ages.

 

[Timtoolman]

npetreley, First Baptist of Lake Orion, MI. Pastor is from DBTS. You will find like manner preaching in all grads from that seminary. Must be a Texas thing?

 

[npetreley]

Originally posted by Timtoolman:
npetreley, First Baptist of Lake Orion, MI. Pastor is from DBTS. You will find like manner preaching in all grads from that seminary. Must be a Texas thing?

I live in Texas, so it can't be a Texas thing unless all the pastors who studied here went somewhere else.

I'm sure I'll find a good church, though. They can't ALL be free willers and more concerned about numbers than truth.

 

[Timtoolman]

All free willers are concerned about numbers, and not about truth? npet your in a world I am afraid I don't know about. However you seem to be very bitter and hateful towards those that do not hold to calvin's teaching. That is a lot of hate brother.

 

[StraightAndNarrow]

Jesus said that if you wanted to be one of His followers you must first pick up your cross and follow Him. How does that fit into Calvinism?

 

[StraightAndNarrow]

Originally posted by npetreley:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by webdog:
Why? If you were unconditionally elected from the foundation of the world, why would God "owe" His "elect" judgement?

Because that is what we ALL deserve. Judgement. The only reason the elect aren't judged is because God has mercy on them, not because they don't deserve it. </font>[/QUOTE]Where in here does it say that the elect won't be judged?

Rev 20:11 And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them.
Rev 20:12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is [the book] of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.
Rev 20:13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.
Rev 20:14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
Rev 20:15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

 

[npetreley]

Originally posted by StraightAndNarrow:
Where in here does it say that the elect won't be judged?

Sorry, I used the wrong term. We all deserve it, but the elect will not experience God's wrath (at least not as objects of His wrath).

 

[Calvibaptist]

Originally posted by StraightAndNarrow:
Jesus said that if you wanted to be one of His followers you must first pick up your cross and follow Him. How does that fit into Calvinism?

How does it not fit into Calvinism?

 

[Joseph_Botwinick]

Originally posted by Timtoolman:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by npetreley:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Rippon:
The one thing God owes us is judgment.

I think that the tendency for churches to ignore or water down this point is a key factor in why free willism has spread like a contagious disease. </font>[/QUOTE]You might be on too something there. I think that there is much more to God then anger, wrath and judgement. Guess I like to hear about the Mercy, Love and Grace also. I find however though that most churches, specially reformed/calvinist tend to concentrate on only the former. </font>[/QUOTE]Perhaps, you might be on to something here. I don't know for sure since I have never been to your Church. It is possible that some Churches focus too much on God's wrath and very little on his grace and mercy. The flip side is also true of many free-will Churches I have attended, where they focus heavily on the love and mercy of God while ignoring the wrath of God as if it didn't exist. Most Calvinists, however, that I have met, read, and listened to, know that there is no grace without wrath, and focus on both equally. You see, what is so incredible and amazing about the grace of God is that we deserved the wrath of God, and instead, recieved his grace.

Joseph Botwinick

 

[Timtoolman]

[Qoute]You see, what is so incredible and amazing about the grace of God is that we deserved the wrath of God, and instead, recieved his grace.[qoute]

I think we agree. Same pt that it has to be balanced. I am attending a church for now that is a calvinist preacher.

 

[npetreley]

Originally posted by Joseph_Botwinick:
Most Calvinists, however, that I have met, read, and listened to, know that there is no grace without wrath, and focus on both equally.

IMO, there's no point in preaching God's love and mercy without preaching God's righteousness and wrath. Why should I care about God's mercy unless I first know why I need it?

 

[StraightAndNarrow]

Originally posted by Calvibaptist:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by StraightAndNarrow:
Jesus said that if you wanted to be one of His followers you must first pick up your cross and follow Him. How does that fit into Calvinism?

How does it not fit into Calvinism? </font>[/QUOTE]Calvinists don't believe that a changed life and an abiding in Christ are necessary for salvation, do they?

 

[Joseph_Botwinick]

Calvinists believe that a changed life and an abiding in Christ are a result of the work of the Holy Spirit in regeneration that leads to salvation.

Joseph Botwinick

 

[EdSutton]

Originally posted by J.D.:
Just in case there's some confusion, this is not James P Boice, one of the founders of the SBC, who himself was a great theologian and stout calvinist. His systematic IMO was one of the easiest to understand.

This James M Boice, as was stated, was a Presbyterian, Pastor of 10th Presbyterian Church in Philadelphia. I used to listen to him every Sunday morning on my way to church on a local radio station. He is no longer on the station for some reason.

Anyway, this is the first time I've ever read any of his writings, and I can see that they are as superb as his sermons. I've always referred to him as a "walking bible encyclopedia".

Thanks Rippon for an excellent post.

Dr. James M. Boice was called home at the age of 62 on June 15, 2000, after an illness of cancer. Unless his sermons are being continually replayed on tape, a la J. Vernon McGee or some others, on some formats, this would be why you are no longer able to hear him on the radio.

"Precious in the sight of the Lord is the death of His saints."

In His grace,
Ed

 

[Brother Bob]

For those of you who claim to be the "elect", I wonder if you were predestine to believe that, when in reality in the end God will say "I was just fooling around" you really are not the elect!! I pray that God in His mercy will save all those who choose to believe from the heart, not sit around waiting to see if I am one of them.

 

[whatever]

Originally posted by Brother Bob:
For those of you who claim to be the "elect", I wonder if you were predestine to believe that, when in reality in the end God will say "I was just fooling around" you really are not the elect!! I pray that God in His mercy will save all those who choose to believe from the heart, not sit around waiting to see if I am one of them.

Brother Bob,

Those who believe from the heart ARE the elect. You chose Him because He first chose you.

 

[Brother Bob]

quiz!

True or False. I have at times doubted myself, not God, but myself if I truly was one of His.

 

[whatever]

Of course I have doubted myself. I make a very poor object of faith.

 

[Brother Bob]

There goes your "absolute" everything and brings you back to faith.

 

[whatever]

I don't follow - would you care to elaborate?