Christ The Calvinist

[Jarthur001]

Let me reword it then, I didn't know that Jesus was a follower of Calvinism? The OP suggests that Jesus was indeed a follower of Calvinism, which I find to be heresy.

Let me ask you something close to what was asked by me the other day.

Do you believe Calvinist are believers in the same God as you, and do you believe that you peach the same gospel as Calvinist?

 

[Brother Bob]

Do you believe Calvinist are believers in the same God as you, and do you believe that you peach the same gospel as Calvinist?__________________

I do not recall you asking me that James? I believe you are my brother in Christ and in order for that to be true, we would both have to believe in Christ and His doctrine, not Calvinism or anything else.
If there was any following it was the Calvinist following Christ, not the other way around.
The OP gives the impression that Christ was a Calvinist, which was not in existance, until sometime in 16th Century and never really got started until the 19th Century.

I do not like the implication that Jesus was anything other than the "Son of God". Try as hard as you may, you will not get Calvinism to go all the way back to Christ. Maybe what the Calvinist believe, of which we debate all the time and you have your understanding and I have mine, but whatever the truth is about the matter it belongs to Christ and not Calvin, Calvinism or even Baptist.

I would think that you as a follower of Christ would resent the impression the OP makes.

It is asking the question as if Jesus had to be a member of some group.

 

[Jarthur001]

I would think that you as a follower of Christ would resent the impression the OP makes.

It is asking the question as if Jesus had to be a member of some group.

I have not read but a few post on this thread Bob.

You make a good point as to the group member thing. Maybe the OP was not worded right.

Bob, I made a typo on my post. I did not ask you this before, someone asked me something like this the other day. Just getting your input.

 

[Brother Bob]

Thank you James;

 

[TCGreek]

I do not recall you asking me that James? I believe you are my brother in Christ and in order for that to be true, we would both have to believe in Christ and His doctrine, not Calvinism or anything else.
If there was any following it was the Calvinist following Christ, not the other way around.
The OP gives the impression that Christ was a Calvinist, which was not in existance, until sometime in 16th Century and never really got started until the 19th Century.

I do not like the implication that Jesus was anything other than the "Son of God". Try as hard as you may, you will not get Calvinism to go all the way back to Christ. Maybe what the Calvinist believe, of which we debate all the time and you have your understanding and I have mine, but whatever the truth is about the matter it belongs to Christ and not Calvin, Calvinism or even Baptist.

I would think that you as a follower of Christ would resent the impression the OP makes.

It is asking the question as if Jesus had to be a member of some group.

1. I think it would be anachronistic to label Christ the first Calvinist.

2. However, if he espoused and expounded the doctrines of grace, that we cannot dismiss.

3. So we are force to ask, Did Jesus espouse and expound the doctrines of grace?

 

[Brother Bob]

1. I think it would be anachronistic to label Christ the first Calvinist.

2. However, if he espoused and expounded the doctrines of grace, that we cannot dismiss.

3. So we are force to ask, Did Jesus espouse and expound the doctrines of grace?

That does not even come close to the OP, which asks the question if Christ belonged to some group.

BBob,

 

[TCGreek]

That does not even come close to the OP, which asks the question if Christ belonged to some group.

BBob,

BBob,

He did not belong to a group of Calvinists for the same reason he couldn't be called a Hippie.

 

[Rippon]

BB : The OP did not ask any questions . It did not ask if Christ belonged to a certain group . ( You need to read , or read more carefully ) .There was no query -- I made declarative statements , and quoted those who did as well .

James M. Boice said : "These are the truths taught by Jesus and confirmed for us in Scripture by the Apostle Paul ... the doctrines known as Calvinism ... are that which takes its origin in the teachings of Jesus ."

 

[Brother Bob]

James M. Boice said : "These are the truths taught by Jesus and confirmed for us in Scripture by the Apostle Paul ... the doctrines known as Calvinism ... are that which takes its origin in the teachings of Jesus ."

These statements do not say "Christ the Calvinist", to infer that Christ was a Calvinist, but rather state that Calvinism doctrine orginated from the doctrine of Jesus, which is a great big statement. That would mean that each and every thing held by Calvinism came from Christ, which I doubt.

Christ the Calvinist, the OP is making a statement that Christ is a Calvinist, which infers that Christ belonged to Calvinism. Scripture teaches that Christ is the "head" of the church and does not belong to any Group, which is putting the cart before the horse. IMO

It is the same as if I started a thread as "Christ the Arminian", as if Christ was a follower of Jacobus_Arminius.

You can post what you want, I am just telling you how it looks to me and I do not think you meant that Christ was really a Calvinist, but it comes across that way. IMO

 

[webdog]

3. So we are force to ask, Did Jesus espouse and expound the doctrines of grace?

Absolutely. The Gospel (salvation by grace through faith) is the doctrine of grace...not calvinism.

 

[TCGreek]

These statements do not say "Christ the Calvinist", to infer that Christ was a Calvinist, but rather state that Calvinism doctrine orginated from the doctrine of Jesus, which is a great big statement. That would mean that each and every thing held by Calvinism came from Christ, which I doubt.

1. Christ was not the first Calvinist, and if any scholar or theologian ventures this, he is mistaken.

2. It is wrong to call Christ the first Calvinist; rather we should ask, Did Christ teach the doctrines of grace?

3. The doctrines of grace did not originate with John Calvin. This has been demonstrated time and time again.

Christ the Calvinist, the OP is making a statement that Christ is a Calvinist, which infers that Christ belonged to Calvinism. Scripture teaches that Christ is the "head" of the church and does not belong to any Group, which is putting the cart before the horse. IMO

It is the same as if I started a thread as "Christ the Arminian", as if Christ was a follower of Jacobus_Arminius.

You can post what you want, I am just telling you how it looks to me and I do not think you meant that Christ was really a Calvinist, but it comes across that way. IMO

4. I repeat, Christ was not a Calvinist, but did He espouse and expound on the doctrines of grace? That should be our focus.

5. The term Calvinist is a historical construct and to put it on Christ, knowing the history of the term, would make us guilty of the anachronistic fallacy.

 

[TCGreek]

Absolutely. The Gospel (salvation by grace through faith) is the doctrine of grace...not calvinism.

But what you define as the Gospel assumes so much:

1. "Salvation" from what?

2. "By grace," what does that mean?

3. "Through faith," what does that mean?

4. Is this salvation a one time experience that can be lost and regained and lost and regained?

5. Why aren't everyone saved?

 

[skypair]

The verses I have in mind are those in which the Lord Jesus Christ spoke plainly to his enemies , saying that those who do not believe on him do not believe because they are not his sheep , that those who are his sheep believe and follow , ...

So if we believe what we "hear" Him say and "follow Him," we can assume we are saved. Is that it? So if I walk into your church and agree with the pastor's preaching, I can join ("follow") and presume that I am saved?

See, this is what I find just a little disingenuous about that interpretation. As was quoted of Spurgeon -- true Calvinists are "asleep."

skypair

 

[Rippon]

SP : You need to do an honest study of John 10 where the Scripture ( not Boice or myself ) speaks of the sheep hearing His vice and following Him .

As for Spurgeon's remark -- it was aimed at hyper-calvinists -- not true Calvinists . You are so transparently false in the webs you weave .

 

[JustChristian]

How does it not fit into Calvinism?

By become one of His followers Jesus meant to believe on Him and to make Him Lord. Those who were unwilling to do so, like the rich young ruler, went away lost and condemned. This is quite different from the "Grace Only" view of Calvinists.

 

[Hardsheller]

Rip,

Thanks for a post that does not blast any of the saints of yesteryear. Boice was a great preacher and his theology on salvation was right on track!

AMEN and AMEN.

Baptist who hold to this seem to be a dying breed. It seems that Presbys and non-denoms are carrying the torch on this one, for the most part. Isn’t it true that 150 years ago the name Baptist was almost synonymous with the doctrines of Grace...

right on rip...

NO SIR! Baptists who hold to the Doctrines of Grace are increasing in the SBC by leaps and bounds!

 

[webdog]

But what you define as the Gospel assumes so much:

1. "Salvation" from what?

2. "By grace," what does that mean?

3. "Through faith," what does that mean?

4. Is this salvation a one time experience that can be lost and regained and lost and regained?

5. Why aren't everyone saved?

You know what I mean "saved by grace through faith". That is the good news...The Gospel...THE doctrines of grace.

 

[webdog]

double post...

 

[TCGreek]

You know what I mean "saved by grace through faith". That is the good news...The Gospel...THE doctrines of grace.

Yes, I love that verse dearly, but how does it apply to my life? Why does it make sense to me? What does it assume about my human condition? That is where the rubber meets the road, my brother.

 

[Bro. Williams]

Labeling Jesus Christ after a man's surname is close to blasphemous in my book. Jesus is not a "calvinist" as the title of the thread so ignorantly labels him. He is the Son of God, God manifest in the flesh.

One can feel that Calvin's teachings line up with Christ's, but to claim that Christ's teachings lined up with Calvin's theology... well, that just continues to show that man worship that is so common with those following after this man made theology of calvinism.