Christ the risen Saviour, not potential Saviour !

[Charlie24]

That would be the regenerated made willing in the day of Christs power. He wouldn't be talking to people like Jn 5:40

40 And ye will not come to me, that ye might have life.

So they wouldn't fall into that group Jesus is calling.

They could have come to Christ, but they chose not to.

They simply did not believe He was the Christ.

 

[Marooncat79]

Are you not the ones that say you were picked out prior to creation? What made you any different from all those other sinners?

But the real question is how do you know that you were actually picked? You can hope you were but you really have no way of knowing do you. You can't say it is because you believe as even "faith" had to be given to you so it is not your faith is it?

So your whole hope for salvation is based on what?

Yes per Eph - et al, we were chosen

Nothing made us different, God chooses to save some others He does both

I know that I was elected of God because I was totally indifferent to God, but He through His mercy and goodness revealed the Gospel to me

 

[Marooncat79]

I thought Christ said, "whosoever will let him come."


And then He shows the mercy.

No Christ frees us that we might flee to Christ

 

[Marooncat79]

But Jonah Paul and Abraham all believed in God prior to being saved not after as your religion states.

"A man is not saved because he believes in Christ, he believes in Christ because he is saved" Calvinist Loraine Boettner
Calvinism has a person saved prior to them believing in Christ Jesus.

God gives us faith that we might believe

 

[Marooncat79]

They could have come to Christ, but they chose not to.

They simply did not believe He was the Christ.

Because their hearts were cold and unregenerate

 

[Charlie24]

God gives us faith that we might believe

Ok, whatever you say.

 

[Silverhair]

Yes per Eph - et al, we were chosen

Nothing made us different, God chooses to save some others He does both

I know that I was elected of God because I was totally indifferent to God, but He through His mercy and goodness revealed the Gospel to me

So were you saved prior to your believing or after you believed?

 

[Silverhair]

God gives us faith that we might believe

So it is not your faith is it. So how do you know if it is real or not? You cannot.

But does that not call into question the character of God? He desires all to come to repentance but has not given this "faith" so they will believe which means either He really did not desire that all be saved or you have misunderstood scripture.

 

[Silverhair]

Because their hearts were cold and unregenerate

So why did Christ say they refuse to come when they were unable to come as your version of God had not enabled them to do so.

Really does make one question the integrity of your version of Christ.

 

[Brightfame52]

They could have come to Christ, but they chose not to.

No they couldn't Jn 6:44,65

 

[Brightfame52]

So why did Christ say they refuse to come when they were unable to

Why not say it, both are true

 

[Charlie24]

No they couldn't Jn 6:44,65

The idea of John 44-45 is that man cannot come to God except He takes the first steps toward man drawing him to Christ.

As Calvin said, man is totally depraved, but where I disagree with Calvin is that the drawing of the Father toward man to Christ is done by the hearing of the Gospel, and "whosoever will" can come and drink of the water of life freely.

 

[Marooncat79]

So were you saved prior to your believing or after you believed?

We are saved when we truly beliwvw the Gospel. Ie. Without faith, it is impossible to please God

 

[Marooncat79]

So it is not your faith is it. So how do you know if it is real or not? You cannot.

But does that not call into question the character of God? He desires all to come to repentance but has not given this "faith" so they will believe which means either He really did not desire that all be saved or you have misunderstood scripture.

No. You have misunderatood

If God truly desires to save everyone then His plan is a failure

Is God a God of failure?

 

[Marooncat79]

Ok, whatever you say.

II Thess 3:2. Not all have faitg

Eph 2:8-10. Faith is a gift from God

 

[Marooncat79]

No they couldn't Jn 6:44,65

There are none that seek after God, no not one. Romans 3

 

[Charlie24]

II Thess 3:2. Not all have faitg

Eph 2:8-10. Faith is a gift from God

Faith comes from hearing and hearing by the Word of God.

The faith to believe is in the Gospel message when man hears it.

God leaves it to "whosoever will" the very heart of man to recognize his lost condition after hearing the Gospel and being convicted by the Holy Spirit.

Some will see the need of a Savior and some love their sin to much to part with it and reject the Christ.

 

[Marooncat79]

God indeed brings about faith in the heart through the preaching of the Gospel.

Again, the Bible says there are none that wills (in the natural state) apart from Gods working in their heart

 

[Marooncat79]

Faith comes from hearing and hearing by the Word of God.

The faith to believe is in the Gospel message when man hears it.

God leaves it to "whosoever will" the very heart of man to recognize his lost condition after hearing the Gospel and being convicted by the Holy Spirit.

Some will see the need of a Savior and some love their sin to much to part with it and reject the Christ.

The salvation is not by grace, it is a reward for believing

 

[Charlie24]

The salvation is not by grace, it is a reward for believing

It's the same as the Calvinist when he hears the Gospel and see's a need for a Savior.

He see's the need and God supplies the faith in the message to believe the Gospel.

There's no difference.