"Christendom....we have a problem"

[Deacon]

You have a problem

Originally Posted by stilllearning

The reason that I am confused, is because you ether believe the KJV to be God’s Word, or you don’t? -If you believe it to be God’s Word, why don’t you think that it is “better”, than other translations?”

A translation attempts to transfer the meaning and the dynamics of the original text to readers.
A translation which does this can be regarded as a faithful translation.

As a translation fails in this task it becomes a weaker translation.
It still remains God’s word but its ability to communicate God’s message is weakened or compromised.

All languages evolve or change.
As this happens a translation can become stale.

This doesn’t necessarily mean it was a bad translation,
but in failing to communicate the message, it develops a weakness, a failure to communicate the message of God to the reader.

For some people today, the KJV still adequately conveys the message.
For other people, reading it's like reading a foreign language.

The NT in the original Greek, has lost its ability to express God’s word to you; it needs to be translated.
It remains God’s word but it doesn’t communicate God’s message to you.

Why make other learn an old form of English in order to hear and understand God’s word?

The message of the good news should be available in the language people understand best.

Perhaps the KJV communicates God’s word best to you, Great!
Other people find that different versions have a better ability to convey God’s message to them.

Rob

 

[stilllearning]

Hi Rob

First let me put my quote(that you listed), in context.....

pinoybaptist had said......
“As for the KJV, it's a good translation. But that's all it is. A good translation. I prefer it over all other translations. If I bought a new Bible, I ask for the KJV translation. I feel comfortable with it.”
“But it sure ain't no "superior-over-other" translation.
Get over it (no sarcasm intended).
Try reading other translations and see for yourself.”

And my response was.....

The reason that I am confused, is because you ether believe the KJV to be God’s Word, or you don’t? -If you believe it to be God’s Word, why don’t you think that it is “better”, than other translations?”

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You asked........

“Why make others learn an old form of English in order to hear and understand God's word?”

Rob, this isn’t the point, that I have been making. As far as I tell, from the conversations that I have been having in this thread, people do not have a choice. The KJV, seems to be the only real Bible available.

The reason that I make this statement, is because I have repeatedly asked, almost everyone that I have talked with here: “If the KJV isn’t as good as some other Bible, please tell me the “one” that is best?”
-No one seems to be able to do that.-

Sure, people say that they like a particular Bible, but then quickly follow up that statement with, “but I use a verity of translations”.

This idea, of not being able to nail down one Bible, as “God’s Word”, is the problem that I have been talking about.
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Here is just “one” example, of why you can’t have the Bible, as your solid rock, unless you study one(and only one) translation......

(1 John 5:7)
“For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.”

The ASV, (1 John 5:7)
“And it is the Spirit that beareth witness, because the Spirit is the truth.”

The RSV, (1 John 5:7)
“And the Spirit is the witness, because the Spirit is the truth.”
--------------------------------------------------
How can anybody have faith in this.

This is not a solid rock, and this is just one example.

 

[NaasPreacher (C4K)]

“If the KJV isn’t as good as some other Bible, please tell me the “one” that is best?”
-No one seems to be able to do that.-

The New King James version.

There you go.

Anyone who has an opinion can do the same as you have done. Do your study, do your research, seek the Lord's direction, and choose to trust the translation of God's Word that you pick.

 

[stilllearning]

Hi C4K

That’s great, C4K, and I a glad to here it.

What you have, and what I have, is the exact same thing. We each have a Bible, that we can study and trust.
--------------------------------------------------
You said......
“Anyone who has an opinion can do the same as you have done.”

That’s right, and as I can see you have done it.
--------------------------------------------------
But just because you and I have been blessed in this way, does this mean that we should turn our backs on all those others, who have been deceived into thinking, that no single Bible, can be trusted.

I don’t know who the Lord has called you to minister to(Churches or children etc.), But I am sure, that you wouldn’t want someone coming to your target ministry, and telling them that the Bible can no longer be trusted. (Of course, they won’t put it that way.)

This is the issue, that I am tackling in this thread. And I am upsetting the apple cart, because those individuals, who are attacking the integrity of God’s Word, don’t want it to be known, what their goal is.

Today, I am being “talked down to”, because of my stand for the KJV, & tomorrow you will be talked down to, if you take the same stand for the NKJV.

The issue isn’t the KJV, the issue is the integrity of God’s Word. And how it is being attacked, under the guise of intellectual expedience.

We are being told by these deceivers; “We don’t have all the truth yet, because we must closely examine all the latest manuscripts that are being found”.

Well this kind of talk, is an attack upon the integrity of God’s Word. And this attack will continue to destroy people’s faith, unless someone stands up and shines the light on it.

 

[Dr. Bob]

IF THE TOPIC TRULY IS = "The issue isn’t the KJV, the issue is the integrity of God’s Word. And how it is being attacked, under the guise of intellectual expedience", then this thread is in the right place.

IF your position is somehow that the KJV (whichever revision you think is correct) is the standard for measurement of God's Word, then we will ship this to the Versions Forum.

If a translation differs from the KJV, that is a preference. If it differs from God's inspired and preserved actual words (Greek/Hebrew) then it should be examined.

 

[stilllearning]

Hi Dr. Bob

I am truly sorry, if I am posting threads in the wrong place, in this site.

I just get excited, and jump on, and post in the first place that I come to.

Be assured, that in the future, I will be more careful, in the placement of my posts.


Thank you for the heads up.

 

[Bro. James]

Would this be an appropriate place to define the boundaries of Christendom?

Selah,

Bro. James

 

[superwoman8977]

Okay take it from a woman who has lost everything in the past 18 months like home, husband, family, vehicle, health. The problems arent with who is preaching the problems are that people cant handle extreme loss and when you have someone preaching God loves you, this will make you stronger that isnt going to hack it. I have found my comfort from studying the word not from attending a church. So if I am not a Christian because I dont desire to attend a church at the moment I am saying if because I do attend a church but not every week, the last thing I need is someone telling me that God loves me and this is all going to work out when you are sitting in your 1/2 million dollar home, with your perfect spouse and kids and new car and I am trying to figure out where I am going to live and how I am going to take care of my family. Thats why you have people running away from the church and from God and looking to other things to fill the void in their lives.

 

[Ed Edwards]

//This idea, of not being able to nail down one Bible, as “God’s Word”, is the problem that I have been talking about.//

This idea, of tying God's hands by tying God's Word down to one and only one Bibe is the problem. Messiah Jesus is the Living Word of God; The Holy Scriptures (Bibles) are the Written Word of God.

Here is just “one” example, of why you can’t have the Bible, as your solid rock, unless you study one(and only one) translation......

(1 John 5:7)
“For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.”

The ASV, (1 John 5:7)
“And it is the Spirit that beareth witness, because the Spirit is the truth.”

The RSV, (1 John 5:7)
“And the Spirit is the witness, because the Spirit is the truth.”

These three verses PROVE my Trailer to be true:
read my trailer

The Integrity of God's Written Word is validated by The Holy Spirit in the person of Messiah Jesus (God's Living WORD!) and the KJV1769 Family of Bibles, the ASV, and the RSV, to mention three vailid Bibles, all together containing God's Inerrant Written Word, each individually containing God's Inerrant Written Word.

 

[stilllearning]

Hi superwoman8977


I am truly sorry, to hear about your troubles.

It is kind of like, telling someone, who has lost a child, that “you know how they feel”; We don’t know how they feel, unless the same thing has happened to us.

But you are doing the right thing......

“I have found my comfort from studying the word”

Keep it up.

 

[stilllearning]

Hi Ed Edwards

You said.......

“This idea, of tying God's hands by tying God's Word down to one and only one Bibe is the problem. Messiah Jesus is the Living Word of God; The Holy Scriptures (Bibles) are the Written Word of God.”

Well Ed, you said something like this before, and remember, I didn’t get it right.
-If you don’t mind, I will wait for you to clarify it a little, before I respond.-
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As for your last paragraph.......

“The Integrity of God's Written Word is validated by The Holy Spirit in the person of Messiah Jesus (God's Living WORD!) and the KJV1769 Family of Bibles, the ASV, and the RSV, to mention three vailid Bibles, all together containing God's Inerrant Written Word, each individually containing God's Inerrant Written Word.”

There is one thing that I did pick up on, in this paragraph: The times that you said, that these Bibles, “contain” God’s Word.

I learned years ago, that this word “contain”, is code, for:
“The Bible isn’t God’s Word, it just contains God’s Word, therefore we need help from man, to tell us which parts of the Bible, are actually God’s Word.”

 

[Ed Edwards]

Hello Brother Stilllearning:

“The Integrity of God's Written Word is validated by The Holy Spirit in the person of Messiah Jesus (God's Living WORD!) and the KJV1769 Family of Bibles, the ASV, and the RSV, to mention three vailid Bibles, all together containing God's Inerrant Written Word, each individually containing God's Inerrant Written Word.”

There is one thing that I did pick up on, in this paragraph: The times that you said, that these Bibles, “contain” God’s Word.

I learned years ago, that this word “contain”, is code, for:
“The Bible isn’t God’s Word, it just contains God’s Word, therefore we need help from man, to tell us which parts of the Bible, are actually God’s Word.”

Well, what I said contained several complexity. " ... contain & is the Written Word of God ... " should replace 'containing' every where it appears. That would make my CLARIFIED statement look like:

The Integrity of God's Written Word is validated by The Holy Spirit in the person of Messiah Jesus (God's Living WORD!) and the KJV1769 Family of Bibles, the ASV, and the RSV, to mention three valid Bibles, all together contain & are the Written Word of God, God's Inerrant Written Word, each individually contains & is the Written Word of God, God's Inerrant Written Word

But some people have problems with clarifying things by adding words

The ASV and RSV (individually and collectively) contain & are the Written Word of God.

The Geneva Bible, 1599 Edition says at 2 Timothy 3:16-17:
For the whole Scripture is giuen by inspiration of God, and is profitable to teache, to conuince, to correct, and to instruct in righteousnesse,
17 That the man of God may be absolute, being made perfect vnto all good workes.

I believe 'whole Scripture' includes each and every of the 5,000 fragments we have today that were written prior to 1400. I believe the 'whole Scripture' includes each and every English translation/version. I do not think that the 'whole Scripture' includes the 'Fisherman's Bible'; The OTHER BIBLE (Harper Collins, edited by Willis Barnstone); the NEW WORLD TRANSLATION OF THE HOLY SCRIPTURE, etc.

I invite you to study the scripture with me on this Baptist Board that we might Magnify the Lord, [FONT=verdana,geneva,lucida,'lucida grande',arial,helvetica,sans-serif]as my trailer/signature says.
[/font]

 

[gb93433]

In these last days, we are seeing a lot of new ideas, in the area of ministry: E.G. Video presentations, Power point presentations, You tube videos, sites like this etc.. And although there is nothing wrong with these tools, there is "something wrong". Because during this same period of time, the Church's mission is failing. (i.e. People's lives aren't being changed). Therefore, we must be doing something wrong.

Before I continue, let me explain how we can tell, that people's lives, aren't being changed. It all has to do with, a lack of true repentance. Some Churches may be full, but the people's hearts are empty; And the reason we know this, is because of all the open sin in their lives. When Jesus is changing people, they are going to be dealing with their sin. And when people are dealing with their sins, pornography and alcohol sales, start dropping off. -This isn't happening.

Rather than getting into a lot of theological argument because the problem is not about theology but about practice.

Ask yourself how many can you name whom you have personally discipled who are living for Jesus Christ because of your life and going on to make disciples?

 

[NaasPreacher (C4K)]

As there are two threads on this basic topic this one is closed.