Christian Flag

[donnA]

Does your church have a christian flag? What about an american flag? We have a flag pole, someone gave us a few years back. Tonight at business meeting someone gave the church a christian flag(to be ordered, hasn't arrived yet). We found that when you display both ona flag pole that the american flag always goes first, and then whatever type of flag next. All other are considered subservient. Lesser then. Now I ahve a peoblem, I'm as patriotic as they come, and I agree with placement, but not with the subservient. After all both are not displayed just becasue they are a flag, but for what they stand for. I do not see thats what the christian flag stands for as subservient to anything. So the question at church now is do we want to put them bith on the same pole, or get another pole.
I'm tied on this.
Any thought?

 

[Bro. Curtis]

There are laws in America on how to fly our flag. The bible is silent on flags. I don't think there is any disrespect at all to put the American flag where it belongs, on top.

It is not a requirement of the church to fly a flag.

 

[LadyEagle]

There was a big controversy caused by a Baptist church in our town recently when they flew the Christian flag over top of the American flag. What the Baptist church did was stir up trouble, making themselves a point of ridicule and defamatory criticism. (an opposite effect of the witness they hoped to achieve).

If I understand the laws correctly, the American flag is supposed to always be on top. Inside, I believe the American flag is supposed to be on the speaker's right on the platform, or to the left of the pulpit if you are standing in the back of the church looking towards front.

Also, there is a pledge to the Christian flag. (We always did both pledges, American and Christian, in VBS.)

It goes like this:

"I pledge allegiance to the Christian flag and to the Savior for Whose Kingdom it stands. One Savior, Crucified, Risen, and Coming Again, with Life and Liberty for all who Believe."

BTW, some people don't know, but if you display the American flag on a wall, the stars should always be to your top left.

Here's a link re: American flag protocol

http://www.ushistory.org/betsy/flagetiq.html

[ May 09, 2002, 08:55 AM: Message edited by: EagleLives911 ]

 

[Clint Kritzer]

The flag laws have been altered since we were kids. Here's another link to flag laws: http://userpages.aug.com/haywire/laws.html

It seems to be clear on the laws of flying the US flag with a church flag and it even cites one exception:

(c) No other flag or pennant should be placed above or, if on the same level, to the right of the flag of the United States of America, except during church services conducted by naval chaplains at sea, when the church pennant may be flown above the flag during church services for the personnel of the Navy.

Who knows how that one came to be!!!

This rule is also on the books:

(k) When used on a speaker's platform, the flag, if displayed flat, should be displayed above and behind the speaker. When displayed from a staff in a church or public auditorium, the flag of the United States of America should hold the position of superior prominence, in advance of the audience, and in the position of honor at the clergyman's or speaker's right as he faces the audience. Any other flag so displayed should be placed on the left of the clergyman or speaker or to the right of the audience.

We are instructed in the New Testament to follow the laws of the land, so I suppose we are within Biblical rights to display the US flag with prominence.

1 Peter 2

13 Submit yourselves for the Lord's sake to every authority instituted among men: whether to the king, as the supreme authority,
14 or to governors, who are sent by him to punish those who do wrong and to commend those who do right.
15 For it is God's will that by doing good you should silence the ignorant talk of foolish men.

 

[Chris Temple]

Our church files both flags, yet on different poles. The Christian flag flies higher than the American.

At times when the American flag is flown at half-pole, the Christian flag is not. The church gets inundated with complaining calls, but operators are trained to explain why such is the case: that Christ is Sovereign over all the nations, even America.

 

[donnA]

That sounds good to me Chris.

 

[GrannyGumbo]

I rather hestitate telling you this, but we've recently learned of a true 'Baptist' flag, designed by a Dr.D.L.Green, pastor of Parker Mem.Bapt.Ch., Lansing,MI. because of the controversy over the 'protestant' christian flag. Also, I wonder if it's proper to display the American flag in the sanctuary & pledge to(one nation...)& then preach Matt.28:19 (...teach ALL nations)?

[ May 09, 2002, 02:09 PM: Message edited by: GrannyGumbo ]

 

[BrianT]

I really don't understand the need/desire to fly any flag inside the church in the first place. Can someone explain it to me?

 

[TheGroominator]

Sure BrianT. Just because we are Christians meeting to worship and praise our LORD Jesus doesn't mean that we are disconnected from this great GOD blessed country, the U.S.A. During any public meeting the American flag should be flown out of respect for our country and the sacrifices that were made to ensure that the flag is kept flying. It reminds us to continually pray for our country and its' leadership. Some have said that this violates the division of church and state. That's hogwash. The division of church and state only ensures that the church is able to conduct its' services and business without the interference and direction of "Big Brother." Not that the church should have nothing to do with the country or politics.
GrannyGumbo, AAAAIIIIIIIIEEEEEEEE!!!

When we pledge "one nation under God" I don't see how that has anything to do with teaching all nations. In the Pledge of Allegiance we are pledging our allegiance to the republic that the flag stands for, supposedly one nation under God. Of course, if you look at the course that the morals of this nation has taken, that's not so much the case anymore.

 

[Maverick]

Who is the higher power. Christ or D.C.? Put the Christian flag on top and show respect to the American flag by putting it directly under though I would do three. The Christian Flag then the Texas flag and finally the American flag. We are sovereign states by the Consitution not conquered and occupied countries though it is arguable that Texas and the South are a conguered country, but not by the Consitution.

 

[rsr]

No, the best way is not to fly the U.S. flag. I have no problem with flying it personally, but why should a church display it? A church is a place of worship, not a place to display patriotism.

If you do display it, it should be by the flag code, with the U.S. flag on top. That's the law.

 

[Sularis]

Their should be no symbols - no icons - no idols - no flags displayed in church.

I can just barely stomach a cross on the top of a church or used as a symbol. We talk directly to God; He talks directly to us; we have no need of symbols or anything save what HE commanded - and that is Body and Blood! And even that is abused far too much - both by transubstantiationists, and those who deny the sanctity of this Holy Communion

Im a consubtantiationist it makes the most sense to me

 

[Johnv]

The Bible is silent on the flyingo of standards. But flags are representations of nationalist organizations. The Christian Flag is not a flag of Christ, it is a flag of organized Christian religion. It is not in any way a symbol of spiritual sovereignty. The cross might be, but the flag isn't.

The churches of the United States operate under the protection of the United States. Therefore I believe it is inappropriate and completely disrespectful to fly the Christian Flag in any superior manner to the US flag.

Imagine if Habitat for Humanity flew a flag with their banner higher than the US flag (after all, it's Christian organization). We'd probably be saying it's disrespectful. What if a Roman Catholic congregation flew the Papal flag higher than the US flag? We'd be up in arms! What if the Methodists flew their standard higher? We'd accuse them be being "holier than thou".

When we start to revere the flag greater than something like the US flag, we start breaking the commandment of the graven image. Just because it's got a cross on it doesn't make it okay.

No, it's fitting, proper, and respectful of our church and state to fly the Christian pennant in a manner prescribed by U.S. flag flying custom.

 

[LadyEagle]

johnv, agreed. Amen.

Unless it's the Confederate Flag!

Oops! Just kidding...

 

[Caretaker]

Dear Ones in Christ;

2 Cor.5:
20 Now then we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God did beseech you by us: we pray you in Christ's stead, be ye reconciled to God. 21 For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.

In one way the Church could be considered God's embassy, and we as believers are His ambassadors, His designated, blood-bought born-again representatives. An embassy is considered soverign territory of the nation which it represents. The church could be considered soverign territory of our Lord Jesus Christ. The embassies in New York do not fly the American Flag, instead they fly the flag of their nation of origen. We are merely sojourners in an alien land, with our residence established with our Lord.

I would prefer to fly the Christian flag alone, but we are under the civil authority, and so if we are going to fly the American Flag,(which I honor and serve in my citizenship), then it should be flown according to the regulations which govern its' display.

A servant of Christ,
Drew

Psalm 51:
10 Create in me a clean heart, O God, and renew a right spirit within me.

 

[GrannyGumbo]

"Awright-on the Believer's Banner!" *Deo Vindice*

YeeeeHawww~AAAAIIIEEEE! (y'all forgive me

 

[FundamentalDan]

I think that the best solution would be to put the two flags on two seperate poles. There is no need to go to war over these type issues. Just place the American flag where it is supposed to be by proper protocol. Since there is no established proper protocol for the flying of the Christian flag, fly it as best honors its presence. However, we should not be doing things that would needlessly offend people with the American flag. At least the United States still allows freedom of religion. The Unregistered Baptist Churches of Russia never flew their nation's flag.

 

[SueLyn]

Most churches I've known, even the church I attend now, fly both flags on separate poles, inside and outside. I have no problem with flying our American flag at my church, I'm kind of fond of our Red, White and Blue. In fact, my house is decorated in Red, White and Blue...Stars and Stripes everywhere, I just happen to think those three colors look very good together.
Sue

 

[Johnv]

Actually, there IS an established protocol for displaying the CHristian flag, and it's supposed to be to the SIDE of, not above, the US flag. Congregations that fly it above are violating protocol. The protocol is as follows:

1.When the Christian flag is on the floor level, the Christian flag is placed to the right, front, of the congregation and outside of the communion railing.

2.When the Christian flag is placed within the chancel, communion railing or choir loft, the Christian flag is placed to the right side of the altar, of the clergymen, and of the choir as they face the congregation.

3.When the Christian flag is displayed with the American flag and/or other flags:

a - The American flag and/or other flags may be placed symmetrically on the opposite side of the sanctuary and on the same level as the Christian flag.
b - If desired, it is also proper to place the Christian and national flags side-by-side wherever stationed in the church, thus symbolizing both the spiritual and patriotic loyalties of the congregation.
c - When the flags are placed side-by-side, the Christian flag is always stationed on the right of all other flags.
d - The Christian flag never dips to any other flag. It may properly dip to the altar Cross.

4.Use of the Christian flag in other situations:

a - Where a Cross is carried in a processional, the Cross leads, followed by the Christian flag.
b - In a single-column processional, the Christian flag precedes all other flags.
c - In a double-column processional, the Christian flag is on the right.
d - When the Christian flag is on the same flagpole with any other flag, the Christian flag receives the top position.
e - Where the Christian flag and another flag are on separate poles, the Christian flag is on the right as it faces the street or audience.
f - In placing the Christian flag staff in its supporting base, it should be adjusted so that the blue canton and Cross are turned toward the congregation.
g - No other symbol or flag should ever be placed above the Cross.

 

[Dr. Bob]

Probably the most patriotic people in America are, and always have been, Christians!

Symbols of patriotism should not be in the focal point of our worship, but certainly may be on church property. And IF we are flying the U.S. Flag (or any other nation, as many BB readers are from different lands) we should follow U.S. rules.

BTW, which Christian flag are we talking about? I have seen at least THREE different ones used in churches (roughly speaking, there is a different color and design for Catholic, Episcopal, and Protestant/Baptist) in our little town.

If we are talking about the white with blue field and red cross, that flag is of recent design and use, and is not historic.