Christian or Calvinist/Arminian?

[JonC]

There are some people that enjoy the debate and have a win-at-all-costs attitude. To these types the end justifies the means. No camp has a corner on these types. Again, this does not mean that there is no place for hard-hitting debate. There is. Contending for the truth creates sparks (and maybe a few mushroom clouds!).



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The spirit should always be one of love - love as one tries to uplift a brother - love as ont tries to communicate the gospel to the lost - love as a church practices discipline in order to correct a member - and love as Christians discuss and debate their differences that they firmly hold.

I wish we could see the heart Whitfield had for Wesley on this forum.

 

[Revmitchell]

The spirit should always be one of love - love as one tries to uplift a brother - love as ont tries to communicate the gospel to the lost - love as a church practices discipline in order to correct a member - and love as Christians discuss and debate their differences that they firmly hold.

I wish we could see the heart Whitfield had for Wesley on this forum.

It looks like there are those who are trying to have it both ways. Excuse their bad behavior and agree with what you are saying. It doesn't work but they try.

 

[Dave G]

I wish we could see the heart Whitfield had for Wesley on this forum.

Instead of the apparent hatred that John Wesley had for Augustus Toplady.

 

[Reformed]

The spirit should always be one of love - love as one tries to uplift a brother - love as ont tries to communicate the gospel to the lost - love as a church practices discipline in order to correct a member - and love as Christians discuss and debate their differences that they firmly hold.

I wish we could see the heart Whitfield had for Wesley on this forum.

Jon, sometimes love can be with tender affection like Whitfield and Wesley. However, it can also appear harsh (Jude 1:23) at times. Circumstances can dictate this. On a message board a poster's body of work tends to reveal whether their behavior is a one-off or a regular way of dealing with people they disagree with.

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[Dave G]

So what was Paul saying about Alexander the Coppersmith?

I think that has been answered, at least as much as I could, by the posts before me... in a way.
Sometimes I get the impression that Alexander wasn't saved, although I'm not sure about it.

It's hard for me to imagine a genuine believer doing great harm to his brothers and sisters, but "in the flesh", I suppose anything could be possible.
it has been for me, but I also know that since I have believed, I've never been overwhelmed with the desire to do great and lasting harm to anyone...much less to actually follow through with it.

Arguments, yes.
Beating them up and running them through the mud?
The temptation has been there, but again, the follow-through part.

Let's just say that "something" or Someone stopped me from going the distance that I "could" have gone.

Over the years, it's only gotten better, and my anger, frustration and lack of patience is fading and has been, for quite some time.
Oh, there are pieces of it still there, but for the most part, I handle things differently than I did even a year ago, to His credit.

 

[Reformed]

I think that has been answered, at least as much as I could, by the posts before me... in a way.
Sometimes I get the impression that Alexander wasn't saved, although I'm not sure about it.

It's hard for me to imagine a genuine believer doing great harm to his brothers and sisters, but "in the flesh", I suppose anything could be possible.
it has been for me, but I also know that since I have believed, I've never been overwhelmed with the desire to do great and lasting harm to anyone...much less to actually follow through with it.

Arguments, yes.
Beating them up and running them through the mud?
The temptation has been there, but again, the follow-through part.

Let's just say that "something" or Someone stopped me from going the distance that I "could" have gone.

Over the years, it's only gotten better, and my anger, frustration and lack of patience is fading and has been, for quite some time.
Oh, there are pieces of it still there, but for the most part, I handle things differently than I did even a year ago, to His credit.

The only thing worse than being an angry young man is to be an angry old man. The latter shows that nothing has changed.

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[JonC]

Instead of the apparent hatred that John Wesley had for Augustus Toplady.

Yep. Wesley and Toplady are an example of how not to interact. (And Whitfield is an example of how not to excuse racism).

 

[JonC]

Jon, sometimes love can be with tender affection like Whitfield and Wesley. However, it can also appear harsh (Jude 1:23) at times. Circumstances can dictate this. On a message board a poster's body of work tends to reveal whether their behavior is a one-off or a regular way of dealing with people they disagree with.

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One thing I have learned as a moderator is that sometimes you have to exercise a strict stance for the board. I'm too often ready to listen to the "guilty party", and sometimes this comes back to bite me. I have regretted giving the benefit of the doubt more than once.

But if I err I would rather it be on the side of compassion. We do need to look at a consistency of behavior (fool me once, shame on you - fool me twice, shame on me).

 

[JonC]

The only thing worse than being an angry young man is to be an angry old man. The latter shows that nothing has changed.

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I love this (although I may apply it to christian maturity as well).

 

[Yeshua1]

I am more selective these days on which threads to participate in. One topic I am interested in discussing was mentioned in a few recent threads. The gist of the comments were that [some] people are Calvinists/Arminians first and Christians second. The thought behind these statements was that some individuals self-identity by their doctrinal distinctives instead of their standing in Christ. Let me make some quick points about this charge:

The C&A debate forum exists for the very purpose of debating Calvinism/Arminianism. Posting on either topic in that forum is expected.

Passionate debate about either position does not mean a person thinks that is all there is to the Christian life (although they may consider the topic to be important).

Looking at our brother through uncharitable eyes is the cause of many perceived offenses and hurt feelings. In short - if you are looking to be offended, you will be.

We may knowingly or unknowingly exasperate the problem by returning fire with fire.

We cry "Foul!" not because of a real offense but because a debate point was scored against us. Some people are more concerned with their own personal image than the truth.

We make mountains out of mole hills. Instead of moving on we dig in and fight as if our life depends on it.

We become unbalanced and make Calvinism/Arminianism a hobby horse that we will not get off of. That is when we make either doctrine more important than our identity as Christians.

Notice that I did not blame one side. I have read enough posts over the years to know this problem cuts both ways.



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One big problem is when we get confused in what we are in Christ, as its Christian first and primary, and then Reformed/Baptist/Calvinist or not etc!

 

[1689Dave]

Christian first then Arminian, then Calvinist. What happened in my case was God saved me apart from any church. I wasn't looking for religion but the Lord regenerated me and I experienced the fruits of the Holy Spirit, that I associated with Jesus. I fell into Arminian Pentecostalism and Dispensationalism not knowing any better. But in one Pentecostal Church I heard the Calvinistic doctrine of Limited atonement for the first time, as they taught against it. I knew it was true. This was the turning point in my life. So I began my journey as a Christian, and remain the same. Only that I identify with Calvinistic sin and grace instead of the Arminian version.