"With the type of cake they came in for"? So you would witness to them, and STILL give them a cake that mocks Jesus?
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Christian Pizzeria ATTACKED by gay lobby raises over $18k in 2 HOURS!
- Thread starter Revmitchell
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"With the type of cake they came in for"? So you would witness to them, and STILL give them a cake that mocks Jesus?
They don't want a "more positive" cake. In fact, they aren't there for a cake at all - positive or otherwise. They aren't there for your empathy. They aren't there for your conversation.
When things like this happen - people are there to force your hand and take it to the media. Like with this pizza place. It's a hit piece. You can preach all day. That isn't why they are there.
Should this lady at the pizza place said that she won't discuss her business practices? Who knows.
If she had said that, it's possible the interviewer would have just been all the more persistent.
It's like the bed-and-breakfast couple in England. The gay couple trying to make a reservation there had a host of choices for a bed-and-breakfast. They KNEW this particular one would not host a gay couple overnight. That's why they went there.
While a Christian should always be presenting Christ to the world both in and out of the workplace, this isn't about evangelism. This is about the targeting of Christians who own public businesses and trying to present them as hateful bigots.
It won't matter how Christians answer the questions posed to them. The twisting of their words is all that the world is interested in.
What if they insist they still want the cake that mocks Jesus? Would you make it for them?
You can answer with yes or no. No need to beat around the bush.
Zaac
Well-Known Member
Now Don, I said they are not going to mind not leaving with the type of cake they came in for.
So no, they are not getting a cake that mocks Jesus. People who ask for such things are like atheists. I don't know a single atheists who has not gone through some truly rough times to the point that they can only take control back by denying God.
Zaac
Well-Known Member
I did answer. They WILL NOT want the cake when we're done. This is part of the problem with the Body of Christ. We doubt the power of the Holy Spirit.
Love covers a multitude of sins and you will be surprised how quickly you can defuse someone's anger and hurt by showing them that you unconditionally love and care for them.
That involves listening.
So hear me when I say it to you Matt. They will no longer want that cake. :laugh:
Zaac
Well-Known Member
Spoken like someone who is listening to politics and not to Jesus. And I might add, that it's this kind of funky attitude that keeps people at bay from the Body of Christ.
Learn how to listen. Stop speaking and listen to an All-Knowing Holy Spirit.
Oh ye of little faith. No weapon formed against me will prosper. You just don't know how to direct a conversation. That's why you get out of the way and let the Holy Spirit have Its way.
Why not. She's in business. She doesn't have to discuss her practices. The people of Christ have got to be about Christ. If someone wants to interview you, straight to the Cross.
We've just been so hypocritical in our practices that it's hard to do.
And she could have been all the more persistent in sharing the Gospel.
What was their policy? Did they host other unmarried couples or was it just gay couples they wouldn't host?
It is too about evangelism. Everything we do is about evangelism and being a witness. Otherwise, there's no reason for us to be here. Christians are targeted everyday. Gosh you act as though you haven't read Scripture where they kept trying to trap Christ.
If they want to present you as a hateful bigot, then my gosh, don't act like one for them.
It will matter. It always matters. Some of you are just to the point that you're angry about everything and have forgotten that Jesus demands that we respond in love. Not in anger. Not in sarcasm. Not in cynicism. Not in jadedness. But in LOVE.
Zaac
Well-Known Member
HOW many times does this need to be answered.
"I don't want to make you a cake."
Why not?
"I don't want to make you a cake."
But you have to tell me why you won't make me a cake.
"I don't want to make you a cake."
"I don't want to make you a cake."
"I don't want to make you a cake."
"There is another baker 5 blocks from here. Here's the directions. Have a nice day"
Trust me, I wouldn't give a reason, I'd just keep saying, "I don't want to make you a cake."
You disappoint me.
Zaac
Well-Known Member
Thank you ITL. I keep wondering why the reason has to even enter the conversation. If someone wants to frame the conversation as such, you either take the conversation to something else or explain that I don't want to make that cake.
Zaac
Well-Known Member
I'm sorry. But you're looking for an answer that satisfies Matt. I'm giving the answer that I already know will be the outcome when the Holy Spirit starts to deal with the real reason they are asking for the cake in the first place.
Yes. After answering "I don't want to make you a cake" several times, I might say, "Let's talk about why you want a cake with this message made. Why to you want to make this cake?"
I am listening to Jesus. Jesus said that we would be sheep among wolves and that the world would hate his disciples because they hate Jesus.
Jesus said that Christians should be as wise as serpents and as harmless as doves.
We MUST be cognizant that the enemies of Christ would like nothing better to see our ruin and destruction, but we cannot return attack for attack. Any guile on our behalf only bolsters the enemy's footing and discredits those who hate Christians.
Jesus said that we should love our enemies, but he also said that we should obey his commandments and go and sin no more.
I don't understand why you don't see that these attacks on Christians who own public businesses are just that - premeditated and with the purpose of discrediting those of faith.
A Christian should never hide their beliefs. There is always a time to speak up publicly about certain social issues ("answering a fool") and time to refrain from speaking ("not answering a fool"). But feigning "love" under that mask of political correctness and fear of answering a question isn't being shrewd as a serpent nor living in integrity like a peacemaker.
Who did that? The woman at the pizza place? The man who wouldn't bake the wedding cake? The couple in England who wouldn't allow gay couples to spend romantic weekends at their bed-and-breakfast?
Who acted like a hateful bigot?
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I wonder if they will carve out 10% of that.
Zaac
Well-Known Member
You're listening to Scarlett and your own desire that believes that their motives couldn't have been for anything other than what you want to believe. There's always room to take it to the Cross.
He also said they should love.
We must also be cognizant that if we are making ourselves look unloving, it also discredits Christ.
And what sin is there in baking a cake?
I didn't say they weren't premeditated or anything else. But if you and everyone else is seeing this, then respond like Jesus.
Nobody asked a Christian to hide his beliefs. But if it is truly a belief, it should be practiced with some degree of consistency. If you're dealing with the public, you don't get to decide that because of a specific sin that you don't like, that you're not going to provide the good or service to someone. AT least not without public consequences.
Treat people the same.
And as a follower of Christ, I speak to HIS truth. No I wouldn't cater a "gay wedding" because Biblically there's no such thing.
Who did that? The woman at the pizza place? The man who wouldn't bake the wedding cake? The couple in England who wouldn't allow gay couples to spend romantic weekends at their bed-and-breakfast?
Who acted like a hateful bigot?[/QUOTE]
Why dont gays MAN UP and go to a Muslim bakery and demand one?
Zaac
Well-Known Member
Yep. When you present yourself as someone who won't provide a good or service to someone because of a specific sin, yeah you do look like a hateful bigot unless you're treating all sin the same.
So to claim it's against my religious beliefs to make a cake for a gay wedding fails the sniff test of discrimination if you're making cakes for other folks who sin. So I say again, don't make any cakes for barmitzvahs, for the birthdays of adulterers, for the Friday afternoon office party full of liars and thieves, and then claiming I don't make cakes for things that go against my religious beliefs passes muster.
I don't believe it does in this instance.
And so I say again, instead of talking about religious beliefs, talk about what God's word ACTUALLY says.
There is no such thing as a gay wedding Biblically. So I can't speak to something that doesn't exist.:thumbsup:
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