Christians and alcohol

[dispen4ever]

TP, I described what I would do. He has been sober for 11 years. I knew him 12 years ago, when he was a slobbering unemployed drunk. I'm not that often around him nowadays. Maybe every couple of weeks. He is a great guy, a real pleasure to be around. My comment was to identify my reaction to anyone who would even suggest that he take a drink, not his need for my presence.

 

[xdisciplex]

But weren't the people at the wedding drunk? But on the other hand it's also hard to imagine that Jesus' first miracle was making vine for drunk people.

 

[Claudia_T]

Please quote the whole thought, not just the verse found in the concordance. The whole proverb goes like this.



It asks the question who has these problems and it answers the drunk aka the one who tarries long over wine. It really doesn't have anything to do with the idea it won't happen to me.

didnt say that

 

[Dustin]

Is the consumption of alcohol in any amounts acceptable today for a Christian?

Yes, in moderation consumption of alcohol is acceptable. I think it was Martin Luther who once said "It's better to think of church in the ale house, than of the ale house in church." That being said, I ascribe to Reformed theology and attend a Presbyterian church where wine is served weekly with the Lord's Supper. That's biblical doctrine being practiced, as Christ commanded us to do. I don't see a problem with my Baptist brethren who use grape juice, I see no problem in how my church uses real wine, we're both fully assured in our own minds.

Grace and Peace to you,
Dustin

 

[tragic_pizza]

TP, I described what I would do. He has been sober for 11 years. I knew him 12 years ago, when he was a slobbering unemployed drunk. I'm not that often around him nowadays. Maybe every couple of weeks. He is a great guy, a real pleasure to be around. My comment was to identify my reaction to anyone who would even suggest that he take a drink, not his need for my presence.

OK, so slapping down anyone who would not necessarily know of his recovery, yet want to be hospitable, is a Christian response in your eyes.

Got it.

 

[tragic_pizza]

But weren't the people at the wedding drunk? But on the other hand it's also hard to imagine that Jesus' first miracle was making vine for drunk people.

It's unlikely that anyone was drunk at the wedding feast. More likely that, after having a glass or three, their tastebuds wouldn't have known the difference between good wine and poor, thus the steward's surprise.

 

[Smoky]

The steward was supprised because he was speaking about his experiences with other feasts in general and not necesarrily about this particular feast. Jesus would never have given alcoholic to people who were already drunk! Whether the wine He made was alcoholic is another debate, and is not clearcut either way.

 

[tragic_pizza]

The steward was supprised because he was speaking about his experiences with other feasts in general and not necesarrily about this particular feast. Jesus would never have given alcoholic to people who were already drunk! Whether the wine He made was alcoholic is another debate, and is not clearcut either way.

Smoky, in order to keep grapes from becoming wine, you have to pasteurize them. The natural state of crushed grapes is to produce alcohol.

 

[Chemnitz]

"Look not thou upon the wine when it is red, when it giveth his color in the cup, when it moveth itself aright. At the last it biteth like a serpent, and stingeth like an adder." Prov. 23:31, 32

alcoholics become alcoholics because they start drinking alcohol. Nobody ever thinks they are going to become one.

... didnt say that

The way you tied them together made it sound like that is what you meant.

The steward was supprised because he was speaking about his experiences with other feasts in general and not necesarrily about this particular feast. Jesus would never have given alcoholic to people who were already drunk! Whether the wine He made was alcoholic is another debate, and is not clearcut either way.

I love the excuses people come up with to try and keep their no alcohol beliefs. Wine is wine, not grape juice. If it says it is wine than that is what he meant. Funny many of the people who play word games with wine are the same ones who play word games with "This is my body." I wonder if there is a correlation.

 

[Rufus_1611]

I love the excuses people come up with to try and keep their no alcohol beliefs. Wine is wine, not grape juice. If it says it is wine than that is what he meant. Funny many of the people who play word games with wine are the same ones who play word games with "This is my body." I wonder if there is a correlation.

If you believe that all wine references in the Bible are references to alcoholic wines, then would not verses such as Prov 23:31,32 support that Christians should not drink alcohol?

"Look not thou upon the wine when it is red, when it giveth his colour in the cup, when it moveth itself aright. At the last it biteth like a serpent, and stingeth like an adder." - Proverbs 23:31-32​

 

[mman]

So......... What is God's definition of drunk? .1? .09? .08? .06? .03?

I'm sure many rationalize their drinking and state that it's ok as long as I don't get drunk. Just how close can you get to the edge without falling off.

When you take that first step, you are walking toward a cliff that you don't know how far away the edge is.

So, as Christians, we are to avoid every form of evil (I Thess 5:22).

I know what the safe ground is. I don't drink any alcohol. Therefore, I cannot get drunk, regardless of what God's definition is of being drunk and I am avoiding what many people regard as evil. Lastly, I seriously think it would be a stumbling block to some of my Christian brothers and sisters. Based on these principles, it would violate my conscience, thus for me, it would be sinful. Furthermore, I do not judge those who think otherwise.

 

[Smoky]

Smoky, in order to keep grapes from becoming wine, you have to pasteurize them. The natural state of crushed grapes is to produce alcohol.

Tragic, I'm just saying that I don't believe Jesus gave alcoholic wine to people who were already drunk. Do you?

 

[Smoky]

I love the excuses people come up with to try and keep their no alcohol beliefs. Wine is wine, not grape juice. If it says it is wine than that is what he meant. Funny many of the people who play word games with wine are the same ones who play word games with "This is my body." I wonder if there is a correlation.

Gosh, I'm not trying to come up with excuses, I just don't believe Jesus would give alcoholic wine to drunk people. Do you?

 

[webdog]

Tragic, I'm just saying that I don't believe Jesus gave alcoholic wine to people who were already drunk. Do you?

Did He keep breaking the bread and fish after those who ate first were "well full" in feeding the multitude? Would He have been tempting them to be gluttons by doing so?

 

[webdog]

So......... What is God's definition of drunk? .1? .09? .08? .06? .03?

I'm sure many rationalize their drinking and state that it's ok as long as I don't get drunk. Just how close can you get to the edge without falling off.

When you take that first step, you are walking toward a cliff that you don't know how far away the edge is.

So, as Christians, we are to avoid every form of evil (I Thess 5:22).

Let's use this same flawed logic...

What's God's definition of "gluttony" .5 sandwiches? 1? 1.5? 2? 2.5?

I'm sure many rationalize their gluttony and state that it's ok to eat anything as long as they don't commit gluttony. Just how close can you get to the edge without falling off. When you take that first step, and put any food in your mouth, you are walking toward a cliff that you don't know how far away the edge is.

So, as Christians, we are to avoid every form of evil (1 Thess 5:22")

I guess you should never eat again, huh :BangHead:

 

[webdog]

If you believe that all wine references in the Bible are references to alcoholic wines, then would not verses such as Prov 23:31,32 support that Christians should not drink alcohol?

"Look not thou upon the wine when it is red, when it giveth his colour in the cup, when it moveth itself aright. At the last it biteth like a serpent, and stingeth like an adder." - Proverbs 23:31-32​

No. That verse says nothing of drinking, but what happens "at the last" (too much).

 

[Rufus_1611]

No. That verse says nothing of drinking, but what happens "at the last" (too much).

Are you suggesting that it is alright to drink it blind folded?

 

[FriendofSpurgeon]

Yes, in moderation consumption of alcohol is acceptable. I think it was Martin Luther who once said "It's better to think of church in the ale house, than of the ale house in church." That being said, I ascribe to Reformed theology and attend a Presbyterian church where wine is served weekly with the Lord's Supper. That's biblical doctrine being practiced, as Christ commanded us to do. I don't see a problem with my Baptist brethren who use grape juice, I see no problem in how my church uses real wine, we're both fully assured in our own minds.

Grace and Peace to you,
Dustin

Interesting. I didn't know that many Presby churches (USA, PCA, EPC, or other) had weekly observances or served actual wine.

 

[Chemnitz]

If you believe that all wine references in the Bible are references to alcoholic wines, then would not verses such as Prov 23:31,32 support that Christians should not drink alcohol?

"Look not thou upon the wine when it is red, when it giveth his colour in the cup, when it moveth itself aright. At the last it biteth like a serpent, and stingeth like an adder." - Proverbs 23:31-32​

Once again people need to read the whole proverb not just the part that appears in their concordance.

Proverbs 23:29 - 24:1 Who has woe? Who has sorrow? Who has strife? Who has complaining? Who has wounds without cause? Who has redness of eyes? 30 Those who tarry long over wine; those who go to try mixed wine. 31 Do not look at wine when it is red, when it sparkles in the cup and goes down smoothly. 32 In the end it bites like a serpent and stings like an adder. 33 Your eyes will see strange things, and your heart utter perverse things. 34 You will be like one who lies down in the midst of the sea, like one who lies on the top of a mast. 35 "They struck me," you will say, "but I was not hurt; they beat me, but I did not feel it. When shall I awake? I must have another drink."

It is a warning against drunkness not a warning against wine in general.

So, as Christians, we are to avoid every form of evil (1 Thess 5:22")

I guess you should never eat again, huh

You forgot driving a personal vehicle, using money, and the use of intrumental music because some people consider them to be evil too. :tongue3:

 

[tragic_pizza]

If you believe that all wine references in the Bible are references to alcoholic wines, then would not verses such as Prov 23:31,32 support that Christians should not drink alcohol?

"Look not thou upon the wine when it is red, when it giveth his colour in the cup, when it moveth itself aright. At the last it biteth like a serpent, and stingeth like an adder." - Proverbs 23:31-32​

This has been addressed.