Christians and Foolish Risks

[Heavenly Pilgrim]

As I reflect on the recent tragedy, in the death of the young man in our church in the chute of a local bull riding event, many things I have to ponder.

Our bodies as Christians are to be first and foremost the temple of the Holy Spirit. When we give our lives to the Lord, we surrender our lives to Him. Where have we so learned that we as Christian can place our very lives in eminent danger by the participation of a dangerous and unnecessary hobby such as bull riding that serves no practical purpose or needed social benefit other than sheer so-called entertainment and or notoriety? What moral or good purpose does it serve? Can we place our lives at such well known risk such as this so called sport is without reaping the whirlwind? What literal difference is there in this sport, cowboy or not, that makes this unnecessary risk to life and health, any different than say toying with a deadly snake, or playing Russian roulette for sport and or money, and then saying that we are ‘giving God the praise’ if the gun hits on an empty chamber, or the snake fails to bite, and in doing so one is to win big bucks?

I can understand the world, with the allurements it has for the flesh, its desire to be seen as macho, sexy, or some other purely selfish desire, engaging in such activities, but where does the child of God, one who has supposedly given their lives to the Lord, gain the impetus for such unnecessary risk taking? It would seem to me that we have gone stark raving crazy by the allurements of the world to be entertained, raised on a pedestal as being macho or tough, or to reap a fast buck by a foolish means.

Does not Scripture instruct us to make our living by working with our hands? Where are the godly examples in Scripture of earning a living by such risk taking means that gains its impetus by the desire of others to satisfy some carnal desire to see others so risk their lives in foolish sport?

 

[just-want-peace]

I can understand the world, with the allurements it has for the flesh, its desire to be seen as macho, sexy, or some other purely selfish desire, engaging in such activities, but where does the child of God, one who has supposedly given their lives to the Lord, gain the impetus for such unnecessary risk taking? It would seem to me that we have gone stark raving crazy by the allurements of the world to be entertained, raised on a pedestal as being macho or tough, or to reap a fast buck by a foolish means.

I've pondered many times thoughts akin to these.

I'm still not sure what I truly believe "dogmatically", but for myself I totally agree with you.

Sans the Christian influence in this country (that is waning rapidly), we will ere long have a repeat of the "Colleseum" athletics of the Romans.

Witness the riots at many soccer matches world-wide.

"Coming soon to a neighborhood near you"

Pessimistic? Yep! And absent a good old fashioned revival across America, I have good reason to be.

 

[BobRyan]

It is "God in a box" -- the human tendancy is to place God in a box that does not get in the way of what we like to do when not in church.

It is one thing to risk your life to serve others - but to risk your life to entertain others - has to bring a few questions to mind.

My argument is not that these people "can not be saved" for I do not go to the "you can not be saved if you don't believe like me" clubs and bars.

But I have to agree that a foolish waste of life and talent that might otherwise have been used to share the gospel with a dying world - is something to ponder. I much value is "fame and fortune"??

in Christ,

Bob

 

[billwald]

He died doing what he wanted to do. How many will be able to say that?

Bull riding is probably safer than commuting on the freeway.

 

[Dustin]

Bull riding is safer than a lot fo things that we all do regularly. It can be safer than even walking down the street in a bad neigborhood, or trying to cross a street. I'm sure it's safer than skydiving or bungee jumping.

 

[Heavenly Pilgrim]

Billwald: He died doing what he wanted to do. How many will be able to say that?

HP: Over the years you could say as much about many bank robbers and many committing adultery as well. How does this help us decide what is wise and in accordance to Scriptural admonition concerning activities for a Christian to be involved in?

 

[Heavenly Pilgrim]

Dustin: Bull riding is safer than a lot fo things that we all do regularly. It can be safer than even walking down the street in a bad neigborhood, or trying to cross a street. I'm sure it's safer than skydiving or bungee jumping.

HP: Prove that from Scripture.

 

[Amy.G]

Quote:
Dustin: Bull riding is safer than a lot fo things that we all do regularly. It can be safer than even walking down the street in a bad neigborhood, or trying to cross a street. I'm sure it's safer than skydiving or bungee jumping.

HP: Prove that from Scripture.

It would be kind of hard to prove anything about skydiving from scripture. :laugh:

 

[Dustin]

::gasp:: I can't! Because it's not in the Bible. It's simply an opinion, HP. Surely there are certain things that are more dangerous than bull riding.



But that was a good one, had me laughing out loud. :thumbs:


Soli Deo Gloria,
Dustin

 

[Amy.G]

HP: Over the years you could say as much about many bank robbers and many committing adultery as well. How does this help us decide what is wise and in accordance to Scriptural admonition concerning activities for a Christian to be involved in?

Well, one difference is that robbery and adultery are sins, bull riding is not. It may not be wise, but it's not a sin.

How far do you want to go with this? Let's all stop eating anything with sugar, fat or cholesterol. Let's don't drive cars or use knives or own guns. Let's also get rid of all stairs. I have tripped 3 times going down the stairs in my house, causing severe sprained ankes each time. I couldn't even drive my mustang for 2 weeks because I couldn't use the clutch! Now that's bad! :laugh:

 

[Eliyahu]

A useful thread.

Many people feel ashamed not be machos.

Our lives are given for the glory of God, for the praise of Jesus Christ who shed the blood and died for us, not to be toys or playthings.

 

[Analgesic]

It would be kind of hard to prove anything about skydiving from scripture. :laugh:

Well, Satan fell from heaven...

 

[Green Eyes]

Well, Satan fell from heaven...

Now THAT made me laugh, still :laugh: :laugh:

 

[Amy.G]

Well, Satan fell from heaven...

Well, I guess all skydivers are devils. :laugh:

Do you think he used a chute?

 

[Heavenly Pilgrim]

Amy: Well, one difference is that robbery and adultery are sins, bull riding is not. It may not be wise, but it's not a sin.

HP: Ok. First, I was making the comment to Dustin about 'proving it' from Scripture because that was his comment to me concerning the age of accountability. He told me to prove it exists from Scripture. You can go back and read my remarks to him if you wish on the thread concerning cults I think, but the gist of my reasoning was that God has made some points clear to man apart from Scripture, by means of common sense. I also mentioned two clear references at least a couple of times that sets forth accountability to the law as not being applied to those truly ignorant or those that have no understanding of the law. They must have had no impact on him, or at least he has not made any remarks that would indicate they did that I have read.

On your point above. I was not in any way comparing bull riding to bank robbery or committing adultery. I was speaking to the fact of Billwald’s comment that at least he died doing what he enjoyed, as if though dying doing what we might enjoy for a moment has any real merit.

Now as to whether or not something is a sin, it matters not necessarily what the activity might be, but rather has God given us light that we should or should not partake in it. Things might be a sin to me that are not to anyone else. Things might be a sin to you that are not to me. Bull riding might be a sin for me, while not to anyone else. I do not believe one can categorically say that a particular activity such as bull riding, is or is not sin to them. It would depend on the light God has shed abroad in their heart either to partake or not in the activity, would it not?

 

[Alcott]

Interesting subject here in which I have posted about before, the only responses (when any) almost always being that I'm "hijacking" a thread. Well, not this one, since that's the subject from the beginning.

Alright, to what extent must we consider what is more risk than something else we could do, which is relative in itself in questioning whether we must do one or the other(s) at all? If a Chrsitian is in need of a job and knows of 2 possible openings, one in a factory and one in a coal mine, with reason to believe the coal mine job is more dangerous than the factory job, then must he accept only the factory job? Or must he just make every possible effort to be offered the factory job, even if the waiting period is getting long? And if he finds out he definitely will not be hired by the factory, just how risky can the coal mine job be to be 'too great' a risk to him as an element of the Body of Christ?

Okay, the above example may be about making a living; not, as in the case of bullriding, a form of entertainment with risks involved to obtain notoriety, personal ambition, or possibly wealth. If the question is risk in an acitivity which is not a necessity, then is anything with the slightest risk, which does not envelop a necessity, an offense to the Body of Christ by putting such Body into unnecessary risks? Maybe even doing your own yardwork would qualify, since people do get cuts, stings, and inhale 'harmful' fumes in doing so, and having neatly trimmed hedges or grass that 'looks good' is not a necessity. But then, if you would be violating a local ordinance by not keeping your yard and hedges trimmed, does Romans 13 take precedence over not risking your body unless positively necessary?

As for sports in general, virtually any sport has a greater risk of physical injury than in not participating in such. So are sports evil? The only NT references to physical fitness activities I can think of off-hand is where Paul says such activity 'profits little" compared to spiritual activities, and once where he mentions about running a race and only one is a winner. But should we not jog, for example, because the inicidence of sprains or foot blisters is greater than if we don't?... or should we jog because our overall physical health would be better (for most of us) if we did?

 

[Heavenly Pilgrim]

Alcott: As for sports in general, virtually any sport has a greater risk of physical injury than in not participating in such. So are sports evil?

HP: Many things that are good in some sense or in some measure, or at some times, can be indulged in for mere selfish reasons, and as such be sin.

No one is saying that sports are evil in and of themselves that I have heard, but just the same there be some sports that Christians might refrain from for many reasons. It may even be sin for one to participate in one or another for many reasons. That still does not necessarily make the sport ‘evil.’

We all would most likely admit that some sports are much higher risk than others. I wonder if there is any sport that you would feel would displease the Lord for you to participate in due to the risk involved of personal injury, excessive cost in time or finances to participate, etc. What are some of the guidelines one might have in place that might help to determine the activities we would participate in? Any thoughts?

 

[Scarlett O.]

I do think foolish risks can be a sin.

But, I think this is where the sin lies. It's not necessarily in the behavior. Adultery and robbing banks are risks and they are sinful. Bungee jumping and climbing on your roof are risks and they are not sinful..

So the sin of risk actually isn't always in the risk itself. It in the heart. When people say to themselves about any venture, "Well, I'm just going to do what I feel is right and let God take care of the details. He will smooth it all out for me".......that's the sin.

That's what the devil tried to get Jesus to do when the devil purposely misquoted Psalms 91 and tried to get Jesus to jump off of the roof. He twisted the scripture to mean that people could carelessly do whatever feels right to them and that God wouldn't let anything happen to them.

That's the sin of risk.

And we can all be guilty of that whether we be climbing Mt. Everest without oxygen tanks or lying in bed wondering if we locked the front door or not and deciding to "let God take care of it" instead of getting up and checking it ourselves.

We call ourselves "letting God take care of the details" way too many times in life as an excuse for our own laziness, greed, pride, lack of maturity, and irresponsibility. That's the sin of risk.

 

[Heavenly Pilgrim]

Scarlettt: We call ourselves "letting God take care of the details" way too many times in life as an excuse for our own laziness, greed, pride, lack of maturity, and irresponsibility. That's the sin of risk.

HP: What about the notion that God wants the believer to be at the forefront of the attention, so that when one wins, and gives God the glory, God will be magnified before the world. This is used to justify participation in almost any venture , risky or not, that one could imagine. I even remember about one lady who said she was a stripper for Christ.

In the case of this local young bull rider, whatever glory God received was certainly short lived from my limited perspective. Had he chosen less risky behavior, it would have seemed more likely that God might have been able to receive praise over a far greater period of time. He might have been able to provide for his wife and three children over a longer period of time, both financially and spiritually. I cannot help but believe that poor choices can bring about terrible consequences………………..or should we all just be rejoicing because he evidently told some that he was a Christian, and has now gone on to his rewards?

Perhaps should we should all encourage risky behavior so as to facilitate reaping rewards early? Is it not often presented that they have gained by their early homecoming.?

 

[Scarlett O.]

What about the notion that God wants the believer to be at the forefront of the attention, so that when one wins, and gives God the glory, God will be magnified before the world. This is used to justify participation in almost any venture , risky or not, that one could imagine.

That's the sin of pride. One is to give God the glory whether we win or lose or whether everyone knows our face or we live in obscurity.

Seeking the attention of man and the exaltation from humanity so that we can point the way to God isn't biblical. God used the lowest of the low too many times for anyone to believe that "glory-hogs" are truly seeking to honor God with their attention-seeking antics.

Giving God the "glory" isn't give God "credit" for our successes. It's giving God the recognition that He is Sovereign and that we are worms no matter what life dishes out to us, good or bad.

John the Baptist said, "He (Jesus) must increase and I must decrease." John the Baptist was thrown into a fetid prison and was beheaded.

Jesus Christ, Himself, said that there was no man who ever lived that was like John the Baptist.

I would much rather have the praise of Jesus than the praise of man.