Christians and the Pledge of Allegiance

Oh...I stand and take my hat off. That is proper respect. I do not hold it over my heart though...I am not American. I would not expect you to do it here either.

In parades that I go to over there...I also stand for the colour guard.

 

I am with you now.

 

Cool.

 

Does anyone know why it says "I pledge allegiance to the flag"Why did'nt it just say" I pledge allegiance to the republic of the United States of America"

 

I would offer an opinon RTG but don't want the thread to get locked...

 

Are socialists against states' rights?

Federalists v Statists (is that the right word?....brain fog.....) has been one of the big conflicts from the get-go. Civil rights and commerce seem to be the two wedges the Feds hammer to break States' rights. Could socialism be an extention of civil rights or is that too much of a stretch?

 

Wow, when you put it that way it does make it harder. How can I put my allegiance in the state of Oregon, who's socialist status is near the top? I guess my allegiance is for Grants Pass, where city fees for construction of a 2000 sq. ft. house are approaching $50K

 

KJ,

During the anthem I saw someone give me a dirty look cuz I didn't put my hat over my heart.

Oh...I stand and take my hat off. That is proper respect.


For all the friction the two of us seem to have in our discussions, I appreciate the respect during our national anthem. I would also stand for the Canadian and remove my hat. FWIW, my own opinion is that the hat over the heart isn't a requirement even for Americans but removing the cap is.

I hope all is well with you.

 

C4K,

Every nation in the world is under God. Virtually every state is also secular. The United States is by design a secular state.

I had originally said, when you suggested this thread in another, that I would probably avoid this one. Certainly not out of any disrespect or slight to you, but it's a very difficult subject that I'm not theologically prepared to debate. Your statement, above, though, begs me to ask a question. If all nations are under God, is there not at least a requirement that they respect His laws, the natural law. Not that they specifically enact it but that they regard it and "keep their eyes on it"?

 

FTR...I think we had friction because you seem very intelligent. I feel like I'm not. Intimidation factor I guess?

And on the anthem issue. Things are ok with me thanks. Same to you FTR.

 

KJ,

FTR...I think we had friction because you seem very intelligent. I feel like I'm not.

I'll bet if you ask my 15-year old son, or my soon-to-be ex-wife about my intelligence, they would tell you you have no reason to feel intimidated!

Plus it's just obvious from your posts. Take care, KJ.

 

Interesting thought. However our word is to be our word, when we swear allegiance to a secular nation in that unequivocal allegiance? Are there conditions to our allegiance? If I swear allegiance to my country and they decide to send me to war to fight a nation like Israel would I be right to deny my pledge of allegiance to them? </font>[/QUOTE]Although, I admit this hypothetical is highly improbable, if Israel had been the nation to attack America and harbour terrorists who planned and executed that attack, would it be wrong for you to fight for your country against Israel? I say no. What say you and why or why not?

Joseph Botwinick

 

I don't have any problem with pledging allegiance to the flag and to the nation. I do have a problem with doing that in church. In fact I don't believe the American flag has any polace in a church, or the flag of any other secular nation for that matter.

My last pastor was an ex-chaplain in the Air Force and he was real big on "posting the flag" on July 4, Flag Day, etc. I refused to say the pledge of allegiance or face the flag even when I was up front in the choir.

 

C4K,

Does that mean that political power in general is ordained of God, or that Kim Il Jong is ordained of God?

 

C4K,

That one question is the reason I don't feel theologically prepared to debate that issue. I wish I knew the answer. I know what my heart tells me, that "disobedience to tyrants is obedience to God" (I forget who said that), that Kim's rule is reprehensible to God. Though we have certainly long slipped from the moral anchor we have had, there is a deep and profound difference between us and North Korea, and it is that difference that is the reason I have no problem pledging allegiance to the flag. Ours is a flag and a country that I truly love, and yes, revere.

In my own ignorance of the subject, I would have to guess that it is political power that is ordained and that those who hold that power hold it in trust of God and will be judged as to how well they handled that trust.