"Christian's Don't Sin" part 2

[Heavenly Pilgrim]

Amy: What did Adam and Eve do to regain God's favor after they fell?

NOTHING! God had mercy and extended grace to them and made for them coverings of skin. For without the shedding of blood, there is no remission of sins.

HP: Nothing? Would that be called ‘arguing from silence?’ Regardless of what they did, or did not, God tells us plainly in His Word that unless we do something we will not inherit eternal life. “Lu 13:3 I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish.”

 

[Brother Bob]

Excellent word! :thumbs: This blows the HP prisoner pardon analogy clean outa the water!

:godisgood:

Tell you what it does not blow out of the water, saying that God will not remember your sins, and then saying God went against His word and DID remember your sins.

Either you are saying false, or God is. I tell you what scripture says:

Let God be truth and every man a liar.

Nothing: why was Adam and Eve cast from the Garden?? Their holiness?

BBob,

 

[steaver]

Tell you what, I defend the word. If you call that unfriendly, its ok with me. There have always been brethren like me, who stand up for the word and always will be. Paul was that way. I find it humereous, when you run out of scripture, attack the character of the opponent. Its ok, I can take it. You are the one who will have to answer for it. Not me.

BBob,

BBob,

Are you dense

Now you can either believe it or not. I really do not care, Got it!

Fellow Old Regular Baptist quote: Sincerity, humbleness, and reverence are marks of God's people.

You lose ever round and then attack my character. What do you expect me to say, when you question my own church doctrine, of which I have belonged for over 36 years

I would expect humility in your responses. The commandment is do unto others as ye would have done unto you. Not do unto others as you feel they are doing unto you. But hey, it's one of your own denomination who says God's people are humble. Take it up with their website.

 

[Amy.G]

Rom 4:13 For the promise that he would be the heir of the world was not to Abraham or to his seed through the law, but through the righteousness of faith.
Rom 4:14 For if those who are of the law are heirs, faith is made void and the promise made of no effect,

The promise is made according to faith, not following the law.

One is declared righteous through faith and that alone.

But, for those who love God, they will use all their power to obey Him.

But if they fail, their failure does not annul God's promise.

HP, why do you need the blood of Christ and His sacrifice on your behalf, if you are able to follow the law perfectly? This is what the Pharisees thought. But Jesus said our righteousness must exceed that of the Pharisees. How is that possible??
For what is impossible with man is possible with God! It is impossible for man to work his way to God. God had to come to us. What love!

Thank you :jesus:


HP, you are trying to receive the inheritance based on your following the law. But Paul says that by doing that, you are making the promise have no effect. That means that you cannot be saved by following the law. You must be saved through faith apart from works.

 

[annsni]

Tell you what it does not blow out of the water, saying that God will not remember your sins, and then saying God went against His word and DID remember your sins.

Either you are saying false, or God is. I tell you what scripture says:

Let God be truth and every man a liar.

Nothing: why was Adam and Eve cast from the Garden?? Their holiness?

BBob,

You are arguing with God. What is YOUR interpretation of Hebrews 12?

 

[Heavenly Pilgrim]

I almost feel strange speaking to those calling themselves fellow believers and telling them that God’s law is not simply to condemn man but rather to instruct man in righteous behavior. Why am I having to tell those on this list something so elementary in the school of Christianity?? I say that to our shame.

God set forth His law to protect us from evil, to instruct us in righteousness, to convert the soul, to make wise the simple. Would there be any on this list that would like to add a few Scriptures that inform us of these benefits and reasons God established His law? They are indeed found in His Word.

 

[Brother Bob]

I would expect humility in your responses. The commandment is do unto others as ye would have done unto you. Not do unto others as you feel they are doing unto you. But hey, it's one of your own denomination who says God's people are humble. Take it up with their website.

If you sir, as I said to someone else, had clean hands, you might be in a condition to ask that. Get the mote out of your own eye, then you can see clearly that you are the one in the wrong.

I am meek and humble. I am also "steadfast and unmoveable, always abounding in the work of the Lord". Also, I stand ready to give a reason for my belief as the Lord told me to do.

He also said, if any come among you and bring not this doctrine, neither bid him into your house or bid him God speed. If you believe you can die in the act of adultery and go to heaven, I believe it to be "false" doctrine.

You are dense, if I give you the article of faith saying we believe we shall never fall, then you come back with a question, do we believe in eternal security. That according to the English language is "dense". (2. Hard to penetrate; thick

You can be humble but strict, that is what I am. I go to bed with a clear conscious.

Listen to my voice, you can hear the humbleness:
http://www.esnips.com/doc/96e33562-2be1-4a7c-bba6-deb381ef4bfd/Oh-Look-What-I-Traded


BBob,

 

[Heavenly Pilgrim]

Ann: You are arguing with God

HP: Pardon us? As I recall Brother Bob and myself both believe God to keep His Word and honestly cast our sins that are past from us as far as the East is from the West, never to be remembered again. As I recall, it is you, DHK and others that keep dragging them back, or trying to add in present or future sins not yet addressed, for chastisement or punishment, not us.

Certainly Scripture does say that God will chastise the believer, but if He does it is to bring us into a right relationship with Him again, that in the end we should not perish in our sins. Eze 33:18 When the righteous turneth from his righteousness, and committeth iniquity, he shall even die thereby.

 

[Amy.G]

I almost feel strange speaking to those calling themselves fellow believers and telling them that God’s law is not simply to condemn man but rather to instruct man in righteous behavior. Why am I having to tell those on this list something so elementary in the school of Christianity?? I say that to our shame.

God set forth His law to protect us from evil, to instruct us in righteousness, to convert the soul, to make wise the simple. Would there be any on this list that would like to add a few Scriptures that inform us of these benefits and reasons God established His law? They are indeed found in His Word.

I feel the same way about you HP.

Gal 3:24 Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster [to bring us] unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.
Gal 3:25 But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.
Gal 3:26 ¶ For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.

 

[Joe]

I almost feel strange speaking to those calling themselves fellow believers and telling them that God’s law is not simply to condemn man but rather to instruct man in righteous behavior. Why am I having to tell those on this list something so elementary in the school of Christianity?? I say that to our shame.

God set forth His law to protect us from evil, to instruct us in righteousness, to convert the soul, to make wise the simple. Would there be any on this list that would like to add a few Scriptures that inform us of these benefits and reasons God established His law? They are indeed found in His Word.

Here you go though Amy's are good too

Matt 19: 16-17 Now behold, one came and said to Him, “Good[a] Teacher, what good thing shall I do that I may have eternal life?” So He said to him, “Why do you call Me good? No one is good but One, that is, God.[c] But if you want to enter into life, keep the commandments”

John 15:5* “I am the vine, you are the branches. He who abides in Me, and I in him, bears much fruit; for without Me you can do nothing.

James 1:23-35* For if anyone is a hearer of the word and not a doer, he is like a man observing his natural face in a mirror; 24 for he observes himself, goes away, and immediately forgets what kind of man he was. 25 But he who looks into the perfect law of liberty and continues in it, and is not a forgetful hearer but a doer of the work, this one will be blessed in what he does.

 

[Heavenly Pilgrim]

Amy: HP, why do you need the blood of Christ and His sacrifice on your behalf, if you are able to follow the law perfectly?

HP: Apart from the blood of Christ NO individual can come into a right relationship with God. The only grounds for our salvation is the mercy of God via the shed blood of Christ. Am I making myself clear?

If any man follows the law perfectly in God’s eyes, it will be first a direct result of having been washed in the blood of the Lamb, followed by strength PROMISED by God Himself that in EVERY temptation He has made a way……IF…..I say again IF we will but avail ourselves to His strength. Whether or not there is a man alive walking in such a consistent manner is not for me to decide, nor is it for me to set myself up as a judge. Christ alone will be my judge and will be the only Judge of the every man women and child that has ever lived. I know God’s Word has said in plain terms that some in the past have walked perfect before Him. I will leave that to you and your God to interpret that as you so desire. We will all have a chance to tell God how impossible His commands were, and to tell Him that His judgments of some walking perfect before Him were uncalled for or in error, but as for me, I will take Him at His Word. I believe that some will have some clear apologies to make to some they have belittled as to their consistent walk with the Lord.

I know one thing. God commands me to be perfect before Him and promises to avail me with the strength to comply with His demands. If I fall short, it will not be because God commanded an impossibility out of me, but rather due to my own choices not to avail myself to his promised strength in time of temptation. God is no taskmaster, and never commands impossibilities out of His children.

 

[DHK]

I am meek and humble.
BBob,

And you stated it with great pride as well! :laugh:

 

[Brother Bob]

And you stated it with great pride as well! :laugh:

I knew that would touch you, thank for the humble reply. I will always treasure it. I think I will copy it and put it in my file. I wil call my wife so she can read it also. I got a nice letter yesterday, thanking me for my words and now today I get this. Its almost more than one human can stand...................:laugh: :thumbs:

BBob,

 

[Joe]

He also said, if any come among you and bring not this doctrine, neither bid him into your house or bid him God speed. If you believe you can die in the act of adultery and go to heaven, I believe it to be "false" doctrine.

Hi Bob. I am curious about a few things...
Is this verse you cited above biblical support for purging an adulterer from your congregation (revoking membership) "if it is known" as you stated? If it is known, does that mean if a church member tells just one person, a friend or maybe a Deacon they recently committed adultery and feel awful, show fruits of being repentant, then are they then purged from the congregation for a one time adultery? What if she has no knowledge of the incident, do you tell the wife why his membership was revoked?

I understood only God can know who is saved, and that is why he gave us earthly instructions to follow, a guideline in Matt 18 which declares someone an unbeliever if certain things occur.

 

[Brother Bob]

Hi Bob. I am curious about a few things...
Is this verse you cited above biblical support for purging an adulterer from your congregation (revoking membership) "if it is known" as you stated? If it is known, does that mean if a church member tells just one person, a friend or maybe a Deacon they recently committed adultery and feel awful, show fruits of being repentant, then are they then purged from the congregatin for a one time adultery? What if she has no knowledge of the incident, do you yell the wife why his membership was revoked?

I understood only God can know who is saved, and that is why he gave us earthly instructions to follow, a guideline in Matt 18 which declares someone an unbeliever if certain things occur.

Sorry Joe, we have 0 tolerance which covers me also on adultery, murder, rape, pedophiler, queer, theif.
We have a beieif that we are doing someone a disservice to keep them in membership in such cases. We feel a person has to get saved, before membership in the church. God will straighten us all out one day. We will take them back, after repentance and treat them as good as we treat anyone.
I agree only God knows who is saved, but we know a man's fruits and if they are of the devil, he needs to repent and get right with God, then we will give him membership.

The wife always is the first to know.

Let me ask you a question, say someone did commit adultery and his wife did not want to fellowship him. Which one would you let go, the husband, who is guilty, or the wife?

I see where Haggard checked himself out of rehab. It makes no difference, rehab can't help his conditon, it takes God. It his only chance.

BBob,

 

[Joe]

The wife always is the first to know.

Imo, the wife usually doesn't know. And never will.
Unless I am misunderstanding what you mean here
If anyone knows, it would likely be the man's closest friend which could be a church member, or he may go to a Deacon/Pastor for help like prayer.

Let me ask you a question, say someone did commit adultery and his wife did not want to fellowship him. Which one would you let go, the husband, who is guilty, or the wife?

the husband, no doubt. I don't know who Haggard is

 

[Brother Bob]

Imo, the wife usually doesn't know. And never will.
Unless I am misunderstanding what you mean here
If anyone knows, it would likely be the man's closest friend which could be a church member, or he may go to a Deacon/Pastor for help like prayer.

the husband, no doubt. I don't know who Haggard is

Well, there is no condemnation to the children of God and this man is in a terrible shape and has to tell someone. He sinned against God and his own body, he needs to go to Him. It would eat my guts out and I would leave on my own, make it right with God and come back and spend the rest of my life trying to make up for all the ones I hurt, my kids, my wife, my church, my community, even my coworkers.
But that is just how I feel. Everyman will stand before God for him self. If I turn someone out, I will have to stand before God for it. If I did the right thing, it will be alright, If I did the wrong, God will make it right one way or the other. I have to answer for all I do or say.

BBob,

 

[Joe]

Well, there is no condemnation to the children of God and this man is in a terrible shape and has to tell someone. He sinned against God and his own body, he needs to go to Him. It would eat my guts out and I would leave on my own, make it right with God and come back and spend the rest of my life trying to make up for all the ones I hurt, my kids, my wife, my church, my community, even my coworkers.
But that is just how I feel. Everyman will stand before God for him self. If I turn someone out, I will have to stand before God for it. If I did the right thing, it will be alright, If I did the wrong, God will make it right one way or the other. I have to answer for all I do or say.

BBob,

A broken home is akin to the death of a family. Innocent children's lives are shattered, the wife too. It would be a horrid thing to do for a Pastor or any church member break up another person's family. That's worse than the crime imo. Glad to hear lots of prayer by you goes into it I can agree with that

 

[Brother Bob]

A broken home is akin to the death of a family. Innocent children's lives are shattered, the wife too. It would be a horrid thing to do for a Pastor or any church member break up another person's family. That's worse than the crime imo. Glad to hear lots of prayer by you goes into it I can agree with that

Joe; You can't take the blame from the one who committed the act and place it upon the Pastor. You see, God knows for sure and He has placed you the Pastor as a watchman over His church, to keep it in a way that is an upbuilding to God's Kingdom. If you all God's house to be filled with wordly sinners as members, you have let God down. IMO

BBob,

 

[Brother Bob]

You are arguing with God. What is YOUR interpretation of Hebrews 12?

No, it is not I, but you that is saying God promised not to remember my sins, and then POW!, He remembered them.

Hebrews 12 is simple:
I have agreed we still sin as Christians but not the grevious sins and we must be punished for them, so as not to be condemned with the world. God said He would keep us, and He does with chastisement when we sin, for that sin had not been "committed" when the blood was shed and needs an advocate with God and chastisement, to suffer for it, so God, who still has the blood can take care of it. God has all of the atonement and can save "new" believers also, with the blood of Christ. Of course you don't believe that all have a right to the tree of Life, only the prechosen. Right?

BBob,