'Christians don't sin'

[Brother Bob]

1 John 1:8
(8) If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.

(Just thought I would get in on the "using the bible as a sword to stab our brothers" act on this thread...)

Ok, I'm out of here.

Keep on quoting Tiny, you might get it right.

1Jo 3:9Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

You keep bring up that someone has said they have no sin. I have not seen anyone on here say that. If you are accusing, you are making a false accusation against a brother in Chirst.
BBob,

 

[Brother Bob]

Context Bob (as usual)

Matthew 12:31 Wherefore I say unto you, All manner of sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven unto men: but the blasphemy against the Holy Ghost shall not be forgiven unto men.
--The verse you chose to pull out of context was directed to the Pharisses who had just committed the sin of blaspheming the Holy Spirit. Are you suggesting that unconfessed sin by a Christian is blasphemy against the Holy Spirit?
[/b]
Those that are without are the unsaved.
Those that are within are the saved, brothers, as Paul called this man.
This one who had committed incest was called a brother, a Christian, though he had committed incest. He was judged in that he was excommunicated for a time. Later he repented and was let back into the church. This goes against your theology doesn't it?

Them that are without are the unsaved. God judges them. The believers don't have to be concerned about the judgement of the unsaved. That is the duty of God Almighty, not yours. You are not in the place of God!

Gal 2:4And that because of false brethren unawares brought in, who came in privily to spy out our liberty which we have in Christ Jesus, that they might bring us into bondage:

Fail not to declare the whole council of God.

Also, I guess according to your testimony you can bear corrupt fruit.

BBob,

 

[Brother Bob]

Anyone else?? I hope all of you who just now jumped in here and posted and run, will at least answer?

All of you accused me of saying a Christian does not sin, and that is a false accusation. I just don't believe that Christians rape 6 year girls. If you believe they do, you stand before God for it, I won't. You should all jump in and help the Catholic church out also, they have had a lot of trouble with the raping of the choir boys.

BBob,

 

[annsni]

You left out the most important part: Also this discussion is about dying in the act of adultery and going to heaven, are you among those who believe that rapists, pedophilers and those of the most grevious sins are going to heaven without repentance???? This is your chance to tell the whole world that you believe that Christian can be rapists of little girls, pedophilers, etc. Being you jumped in here to defend sin.

Rom 7:22For I delight in the law of God after the inward man:

1Cr 10:13There hath no temptation taken you but such as is common to man: but God [is] faithful, who will not suffer you to be tempted above that ye are able; but will with the temptation also make a way to escape, that ye may be able to bear [it].

Romans 6;

1: What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound?
2: God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?
3: Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?
4: Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.
5: For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:
6: Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.
7: For he that is dead is freed from sin.

This is Apostle Paul also, please quote this part also, for it is very important. Fail not to declare the whole council of God.

This scripture from Paul is very important also, when it comes to sin!
Rom 6:16Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?


BBob,

Yet Paul apparently sinned also.

Do not say that I am saying that rapists and pedophiles can go to heaven while they're doing their crimes. What I am saying is that a person who belongs to God through His grace cannot do anything to no longer belong to God. A person who is WILLING to do those sins most likely do not have a heart that has been made alive through the blood of Christ. But I DO know of those who have been horrible sinners before they came to Christ who still struggle with their former sins. Yes - God gives them a way out but will EVERY believer take the way out? Apparently not - because we still sin.

Let me ask you this: Can a believer commit adultery? Remember that it's not just an affair that constitutes adultery...

 

[Brother Bob]

Yet Paul apparently sinned also.

Do not say that I am saying that rapists and pedophiles can go to heaven while they're doing their crimes. What I am saying is that a person who belongs to God through His grace cannot do anything to no longer belong to God. A person who is WILLING to do those sins most likely do not have a heart that has been made alive through the blood of Christ. But I DO know of those who have been horrible sinners before they came to Christ who still struggle with their former sins. Yes - God gives them a way out but will EVERY believer take the way out? Apparently not - because we still sin.

Let me ask you this: Can a believer commit adultery? Remember that it's not just an affair that constitutes adultery...

I agree with you whole heartly with this post. I sure wish you had of made this your first post. There are many on here who believe as I do, they just do not want in this mess. People like Tim come on and make a false statement and then run away. That is not Christian like. IMO

I do not believe aa believer can commit adultery, but I am in the minority on here. I believe we are indwelt with the Holy Ghost and Jesus Christ and for me to commit adultery, they are on the inside of me and would have to go with me. I believe we are kept by the power of God and Christians even though we do sin, we do not commit such greiveous sins as adultery and rape of 6 years old.

I do agree with you on this post though. I wish this had of been your first one. This is true doctrine and not one that uphold the sins that are not only against God, but against your own body.

Thanks for reposting.

BBob,

 

[LeBuick]

Yet Paul apparently sinned also.

Where specifically did Paul sin?

Let me ask you this: Can a believer commit adultery? Remember that it's not just an affair that constitutes adultery...

My take on this is two fold.

1. It is not a matter of CAN a Christian commit adultery, to me it's a matter of would a born again Christian have a desire to commit adultery? Or would those desires now be in their past?

2. The sin of adultery is a product of the law. Sin is transgression of the law. Where there is no law there is no transgression so there is no sin. Can we agree?

Ro 4:14 For if they which are of the law be heirs, faith is made void, and the promise made of none effect:
15 Because the law worketh wrath: for where no law is, there is no transgression.
16 Therefore it is of faith, that it might be by grace; to the end the promise might be sure to all the seed; not to that only which is of the law, but to that also which is of the faith of Abraham; who is the father of us all,

This passage says if you are living by the law then you don't need faith. Those of us who live by faith are not under the law.

If that is so, how does a Christian sin if there is no law to transgress?

Gal 3:21 Is the law then against the promises of God? God forbid: for if there had been a law given which could have given life, verily righteousness should have been by the law.
22 But the scripture hath concluded all under sin, that the promise by faith of Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe.
23 But before faith came, we were kept under the law, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed.
24 Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.
25 But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.
26 For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.
27 For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.
28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.
29 And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.

This passage clearly says after faith we are no longer under the law which is here called the schoolmaster.

 

[annsni]

Anyone else?? I hope all of you who just now jumped in here and posted and run, will at least answer?

Please understand that I have a husband with a raging infection in his leg and I needed to change the dressing from where the doctor sliced open his leg to drain the infection. I also had to put the children to bed.

All of you accused me of saying a Christian does not sin, and that is a false accusation. I just don't believe that Christians rape 6 year girls. If you believe they do, you stand before God for it, I won't. You should all jump in and help the Catholic church out also, they have had a lot of trouble with the raping of the choir boys.

BBob,

Do you think Christians sin? Are there levels of sin they do commit but other levels that they cannot commit? Like can they cheat a little on their taxes and that's OK? How about speeding? Taking the pen from the doctor's office? Watch a movie with a bit more to see than they should? Maybe take a second look at a cute girl? How about eating too much? What's the line drawn? What makes a sin bad enough to keep us out of heaven and what can we still get in with?

Again, a person with a heart that's been touched by God will more and more change their desires to be conformed to the likeness of Christ but that doesn't mean that they're perfectly sinless at the moment of salvation. Honestly a person who can hurt a child DESERVES hell IMO but I'm not God. HE knows their hearts. I think He can save a pedophile just as much as He could have saved Mother Theresa.

 

[Brother Bob]

Please understand that I have a husband with a raging infection in his leg and I needed to change the dressing from where the doctor sliced open his leg to drain the infection. I also had to put the children to bed.



Do you think Christians sin? Are there levels of sin they do commit but other levels that they cannot commit? Like can they cheat a little on their taxes and that's OK? How about speeding? Taking the pen from the doctor's office? Watch a movie with a bit more to see than they should? Maybe take a second look at a cute girl? How about eating too much? What's the line drawn? What makes a sin bad enough to keep us out of heaven and what can we still get in with?

Again, a person with a heart that's been touched by God will more and more change their desires to be conformed to the likeness of Christ but that doesn't mean that they're perfectly sinless at the moment of salvation. Honestly a person who can hurt a child DESERVES hell IMO but I'm not God. HE knows their hearts. I think He can save a pedophile just as much as He could have saved Mother Theresa.

Ann;
You no doubt don't know or have any idea, how long this has been going on. I has been a couple of years now I would suppose. Yes, there are difference in sin, Jesus said there was.

First:

Jhn 19:11Jesus answered, Thou couldest have no power [at all] against me, except it were given thee from above: therefore he that delivered me unto thee hath the greater sin.

Second:

1Jo 5:17All unrighteousness is sin: and there is a sin not unto death.

This is Jesus talking not me.

There is death for sin, and there is chastisement for sin. For sure there is a difference between those sins.

To try and say all sin is sin and one is as bad as the other, to me is foolish. It is saying to stay home today, instead of going to the nursing home, is as bad as going across the street and being with my neighbor's wife. I see no comparison and I do not think the Lord does.

Some have joined in this thread with the first words they say is that I am saying Christians do not sin. I have never said that and never will, until I am resurrected. I do believe in a God who will keep me, and present me blameless in that day. Body, soul and spirit. He will chastise me that I be not condemned with the world. I sin, I receive chatisement. To commit adultery, you not only sin against God, you sin against your own body. Our bodies are temple of the Lord, and he that defile the temple, will God destroy. The reason Jesus came is because of the weakness of the flesh, they did not have the indwelling of the Holy Ghost, so they were weak in the flesh. We do have the indwelling of the Holy Ghost and he that is within you is stronger than he that is in the world and will chastise me, make a way for my escape of temptation, and keep me from being condemned.

I thought I should at least tell you this much about me. This is almost to the end, and I refuse to make another ememy so I will not say anything more that might hurt you in any way. I will pray for you and your husband and family. I hope you will pray for me.

BBob,

 

[ajg1959]

I agree with you whole heartly with this post. I sure wish you had of made this your first post. There are many on here who believe as I do, they just do not want in this mess. People like Tim come on and make a false statement and then run away. That is not Christian like. IMO

I do not believe aa believer can commit adultery, but I am in the minority on here. I believe we are indwelt with the Holy Ghost and Jesus Christ and for me to commit adultery, they are on the inside of me and would have to go with me. I believe we are kept by the power of God and Christians even though we do sin, we do not commit such greiveous sins as adultery and rape of 6 years old.

I do agree with you on this post though. I wish this had of been your first one. This is true doctrine and not one that uphold the sins that are not only against God, but against your own body.

Thanks for reposting.

BBob,

A few years ago I was still struggling some bad habits that I had before I got saved, I met a great pastor who discipled me. He taught me what you were just saying about taking the Holy Spirit with me wherever I go. As I Christian, if I go to a bar and drink, I am taking the Holy Spirit with me. If I go home with some woman, I am taking the Holy Spirit with me......This teaching really got my attention and made me more accountable.

Now, years later, I still have a choice as to whether i want to live like that or not, the Lord hasnt taken away my free will....but I can no longer do those types of things without a great deal of conviction and duress.

I guess what I am trying to say is that I know that I am still capable of doing those things even as a Christian, but now instead of revelling in it, I would be miserable, and I thank God for that.

I dont bekieve anyone on here is advocating continual sin by a born again Christian, all I am saying is that when I got saved that God took away my DESIRE to sin, but He never took away my ABILITY to sin. As long as I am in this body I have the capability to do anything I choose to, be it good or bad, but through the guidance and conviction of the Holy Spirit I have lost the desire to do bad.....mostly raying:

A pastor told me once that if a Christian got too far out of hand and couldnt get his heart right again that God would just take him. I dont remember the scripture, or if it was even a valid interpretation, but it makes sense to me.

Every day, when I see people suffering in their sin, I have to remind myself that if it werent for the grace of God, and the blood of Jesus, that i would be just like them. So, I try to never let my pride overcome me and let me think that I am better than them, because I am not.......I am just forgiven.

AJ

 

[Brother Bob]

A few years ago I was still struggling some bad habits that I had before I got saved, I met a great pastor who discipled me. He taught me what you were just saying about taking the Holy Spirit with me wherever I go. As I Christian, if I go to a bar and drink, I am taking the Holy Spirit with me. If I go home with some woman, I am taking the Holy Spirit with me......This teaching really got my attention and made me more accountable.

Now, years later, I still have a choice as to whether i want to live like that or not, the Lord hasnt taken away my free will....but I can no longer do those types of things without a great deal of conviction and duress.

I guess what I am trying to say is that I know that I am still capable of doing those things even as a Christian, but now instead of revelling in it, I would be miserable, and I thank God for that.

I dont bekieve anyone on here is advocating continual sin by a born again Christian, all I am saying is that when I got saved that God took away my DESIRE to sin, but He never took away my ABILITY to sin. As long as I am in this body I have the capability to do anything I choose to, be it good or bad, but through the guidance and conviction of the Holy Spirit I have lost the desire to do bad.....mostly raying:

A pastor told me once that if a Christian got too far out of hand and couldnt get his heart right again that God would just take him. I dont remember the scripture, or if it was even a valid interpretation, but it makes sense to me.

Every day, when I see people suffering in their sin, I have to remind myself that if it werent for the grace of God, and the blood of Jesus, that i would be just like them. So, I try to never let my pride overcome me and let me think that I am better than them, because I am not.......I am just forgiven.

AJ

I thank you for making this post. I love you and will pray that God will continue to lead you as that first Pastor taught you. I believe I can feel the Spirit now with you and believe you are my brother in the Lord. May God Bless you and keep you for the rest of your life. If you do not see me around, please pray for me. I need all the prayer I can get.

BBob,

 

[ajg1959]

I thank you for making this post. I love you and will pray that God will continue to lead you as that first Pastor taught you. I believe I can feel the Spirit now with you and believe you are my brother in the Lord. May God Bless you and keep you for the rest of your life. If you do not see me around, please pray for me. I need all the prayer I can get.

BBob,

Thank you Bob, and may God bless you and your ministry.

AJ

 

[trustitl]

It appears that some have joined in the fray. Just to lay a little foundation I will post what Brother Bob said early on:

I truly am saying that I do not commit those things I listed, that would cause me to miss Heaven.
BBob,

And here is the list that will keep you out of heaven:
Rom. 1: 29 "fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers, 30: Backbiters, haters of God, despiteful, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents, 31: Without understanding, covenantbreakers, without natural affection, implacable, unmerciful"

Please note that Bob has admitted that he does sin, but just not these sins. He also has said he does not sin willingly because if he did, he would not get into heaven.

 

[EdSutton]

Also the medium told Saul that he would deliver up Israel and Saul at the had of the Phillistines, so he knew he would likely suffer during his death the following day. That is why, imo, Saul immediately fell full length to the ground and was dreadfully afraid. He had no strength because he fasted that day .
I think it was God chastising Saul for consulting the witch. Thanks for the link

Why do you all always have to run back to "under the Law" or before. Why can you not prove your case by using the New Testament?

Not to particularly 'defend' Joe, but he was answering a question posed by Marcia, here. To my knowledge, the NT does not have any reference to Saul and the witch, so one can hardly quote from it to answer this question. However, Jesus said "The Scriptures cannot be broken." (), and Paul writes "All Scripture is God-breathed-out, and is profitable for doctrine, ...", both of which are found in the NT, and there are hundreds of references and quotes, from the OT in the NT writings, so I would offer that since Jesus both quoted from it, and referred to it, and every NT writer also referred to the OT, as well, that is a good enough reason to cite from the OT, here. In only two instances, one by Peter, and one by Paul, are NT Scriptures specifically referred to, to my knowledge off the top of my head, by the NT writers, and I have earlier in this thread, referred to the citation by Peter. The earliest of those known as "the Church Fathers" also give multiple references to, and citations from the OT Scriptures, as well, with the notable exceptions of one of your own theological heroes, here, namely "Marcion, the Heretic." I don't particularly want to be identified with one whose own identifying name includes the designation of "the Heretic," but maybe that's just me. BTW, this is not some sneaky 'sideways dig', but this is the first 'Father' noted for his vehement opposition to any "millennialism" or "chiliaism", which is consistent with your own views, on this subject . He is also the first indvidual to attempt to "write his own Bible" to conform with his views, by 'cutting and hacking out' the parts he did not like. Anyway, continuing -

They also made molten calves to worship, do the Christians do that today?

In the sense of "have idols," yes. Paul twice identifies coveting as "idolatry" (Eph. 5:5; Col. 3:5), and writes to not do this, in Col. 3:5, and the last words written in I John are (for believers) "Little children, keep yourselves from idols." (I Jo. 5:21)

If the OT was suffecient (sic), then Christ would not have come.

I don't believe these words are said, however, it is written that "for if righteousness comes through the law, then Christ died in vain." (Gal. 5:22b)

Every time you run back to the OT, to try and justify something under the NT, I hardly ever read it.

Consistency, here, is not exactly your long-suit in this, when one "runs back to the OT, to try and justify something" though, is it? It appears you are known to do the same thing, if such suits you, as well. From this thread, alone -

You just act like some scripture does not mean anything don't you? (Post # 24, My emphasis - Remember these words you wrote, for they could return to haunt you! - Ed)

Choose ye this day, whom ye shall serve?? (Post # 28 - Those words comes from Josh. 24:15a since you put this in the form of a question. Nothing remotely close to this wording is found in the NT.)

Job 27:8 For what [is] the hope of the hypocrite, though he hath gained, when God taketh away his soul? (Post # 104 - Job is found in the OT, in my Bible, not the NT)

David did not have the indwelling of the Holy Ghost. God even turned on David and took his son, so don't tell me about David, he was under the Law covenant. (Post # 194 - You are giving an OT reference here, to David, as to what you are implying about 'taking his son.')

This is from 3 posts, where you have "run back to the OT to justify something under the NT", in this thread, alone. I am fairly certain I could find another three more , were I inclined to seek such, considering you have made over 12,500 posts, on the BB.

The word Hypocrite was used many times in scripture I ask you why was the word "dissemble" used in Gal? Must of (sic) been a reason.

I already gave one possible reason the KJV translators chose the words "dissemble" and "dissimulation" in post #237. I also noted that "hupokrites" is uniformly rendered as "hypocrisy" in every other usage in the NT in the WEB, and the KJV translators only rendered this as "dissimulation" in Gal. 2:13. This verse is the sole occurance of "sunupokrinomai" in the entire NT, and this verse is rendered as

13 And other Jews consented to his feigning, so that Barnabas was drawn of them into that feigning. (WYC - 1382, 'Purvey' revision, 1388, modern spelling, Noble, 2001)

13 and the other Jewes dissembled likewise, In so much that Barnabas was brought into their simulation also. (TNT - 1525, modern spelling, ??)

13, And the other Iewes played the hypocrites likewise with him, in so much that Barnabas was led away with them by that their hypocrisie. (Geneva Bible, 1587)

13 And the other Iewes dissembled likewise with him, insomuch that Barnabas also was caried away with their dissimulation. (KJV - 1611)

13 And the other Jews dissembled likewise with him; insomuch that Barnabas also was carried away with their dissimulation. (KJV - 'Blaney' redo, 1769)

13 And the other Jews dissembled likewise with him; so that Barnabas also was carried away with their dissimulation. (AKJV n.d. - Uh' - which KJV were you quoting, again, since I forget?? But I digress.)

13 And with him the rest of the Jews acted insincerely, so that even Barnabas was carried away by their insincerity. (RSV, 1946)

13 The rest of the Jews joined him in hypocrisy, with the result that even Barnabas was carried away by their hypocrisy. (NASB, 1960)

13 The other Jews joined him in his hypocrisy, so that by their hypocrisy even Barnabas was led astray. (NIV, 1973)

13 Then the rest of the Jews joined his hypocrisy, so that even Barnabas was carried away by their hypocrisy. (HCSB, 1999)

13 And the rest of the Jews also played the hypocrite with him, so that even Barnabas was carried away with their hypocrisy. (NKJV, 1982)

13 And the rest of the Jews acted hypocritically along with him, so that even Barnabas was led astray by their hypocrisy. (ESV,2001)

Why did the KJV translators "change" the words (back?) to "dissemble" and "dissimulation" from some previous version(s), notably the Geneva? It obviously is/was not always rendered in English, as "dissemble", and, in fact, sometimes has been rendered as "hypocrisy" for 420+ years. Instead, how about admitting this is 'translator preference' in view of the day-to-day spoken language?

Was it just because Paul was angry, or was it because God was angry.

This snide, slurring question does not deserve a response, and I will debase neither the Word of God, nor myself, to offer one!

Ed

 

[DHK]

Gal 2:4And that because of false brethren unawares brought in, who came in privily to spy out our liberty which we have in Christ Jesus, that they might bring us into bondage:

Fail not to declare the whole council of God.

Also, I guess according to your testimony you can bear corrupt fruit.

BBob,

Your whole "counsel" of God, as you pull verse after verse out of context, is, as you quote it again out of context and doesn't prove a thing.
A text without context is only a pretext--a pretext to demonstrate your biased ideology which you cannot prove except by taking Scripture out of context, and not demonstrating the proper meaning through its context or through the grammar of the Greek language.
Why not some real Bible Study Bob. What are you afraid of?

 

[Amy.G]

I don't know if someone posted this or not, but remember Noah? He was righteous before God.

Gen 6:9 This is the genealogy of Noah. Noah was a just man, perfect in his generations. Noah walked with God.

Gen 7:1 THEN the LORD said to Noah, "Come into the ark, you and all your household, because I have seen that you are righteous before Me in this generation.



Noah was saved and God said he was righteous. Yet, Noah sinned after God saved him from the flood, after he was declared righteous.

Gen 9:21 Then he drank of the wine and was drunk, and became uncovered in his tent.

Noah got drunk, which is sin.



1Cr 6:9 Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor homosexuals, nor sodomites,
1Cr 6:10 nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners will inherit the kingdom of God.

Will Noah miss the kingdom because of his sin of drunkenness? No! He was already declared righteous. Yet these verses in 1 Cor. say that drunkards will not inherit the kingdom of God? So what is going on here? The "unrighteous" in verse 9 refers to the unsaved. And the sins that are described are the sins of unrepentant, unsaved sinners who commit these sins repeatedly as the dominant force in their lives. Or in other words, it is their "lifestyle". These sins are habitual and they do not care.

Noah shows us that a righteous person can commit terrible sins and still remain saved.

 

[DHK]

Good post Amy.:thumbs: