'Christians don't sin'

[trustitl]

In response to the question:
"have you never committed sin since you have been a christian?"

Brother Bob responded:

Yes................... just not willfully

This sounds like my adopted daughter when asked if she hit her brother. She responds, "yes, but I didn't mean to". I take my arm and begin acting like it is uncontrollably being flung around the room until it hits something. I then say, Oh I didn't mean to hit the lampshade, some other force took a hold of it an made it. The absurdity of it makes the point with little other comment.

Sorry Bob, when you sin, it is you doing it. The new Bob. The Bob with Christ in Him. The Bob seated in heavenly places. The Bob who has been crucified with Christ. The Bob who has risen in newness of life.

 

[Brother Bob]

In response to the question:
"have you never committed sin since you have been a christian?"

Brother Bob responded:


This sounds like my adopted daughter when asked if she hit her brother. She responds, "yes, but I didn't mean to". I take my arm and begin acting like it is uncontrollably being flung around the room until it hits something. I then say, Oh I didn't mean to hit the lampshade, some other force took a hold of it an made it. The absurdity of it makes the point with little other comment.

Sorry Bob, when you sin, it is you doing it. The new Bob. The Bob with Christ in Him. The Bob seated in heavenly places. The Bob who has been crucified with Christ. The Bob who has risen in newness of life.

Do you always know what you say, or are you the one who is your young daughter slinging her arms around?

Hbr 10:26¶For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,

I pray you don't wilfully sin.

BBob,

 

[DHK]

Do you always know what you say, or are you the one who is your young daughter slinging her arms around?

Hbr 10:26¶For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,

I pray you don't wilfully sin.

BBob,

Everytime you sin Bob, it is wilful sin. A lie is a wilful sin. The misrepresentation of what a person has said on this board (which you have done) is a wilful sin. Deceit is done wilfully. Pride and arrogance is done wilfully. Proverbs says that pride is the sin that God hates. Every time we sin, we do it wilfully; nobody forces us to sin. We have no one to blame but ourselves.

 

[Brother Bob]

Everytime you sin Bob, it is wilful sin. A lie is a wilful sin. The misrepresentation of what a person has said on this board (which you have done) is a wilful sin. Deceit is done wilfully. Pride and arrogance is done wilfully. Proverbs says that pride is the sin that God hates. Every time we sin, we do it wilfully; nobody forces us to sin. We have no one to blame but ourselves.

You just act like some scripture does not mean anything don't you?

Hbr 10:26¶For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,

BBob,

 

[DHK]

You just act like some scripture does not mean anything don't you?

Hbr 10:26¶For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,

BBob,

Has it ever occured to you that you take Scripture out of its context, try to make it mean something that it doesn't mean just to fit your own ideology?

Definition of sin:
1 John 3:4 Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.
--At least one of them, and the most common and simple.

It is also "missing the mark."
"For all have sinned and come short of the glory of God."
Have you "missed the mark," fallen short of God's glory?
I would say so.
That, sir, is sin. We all do it--every day. And we do it wilfully. We sin because we want to. We sin out of our own choice. We make the decision. No one forces us to do it. You can't blame your sin on anyone else but you.

 

[Brother Bob]

Has it ever occured to you that you take Scripture out of its context, try to make it mean something that it doesn't mean just to fit your own ideology?

Definition of sin:
1 John 3:4 Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.
--At least one of them, and the most common and simple.

It is also "missing the mark."
"For all have sinned and come short of the glory of God."
Have you "missed the mark," fallen short of God's glory?
I would say so.
That, sir, is sin. We all do it--every day. And we do it wilfully. We sin because we want to. We sin out of our own choice. We make the decision. No one forces us to do it. You can't blame your sin on anyone else but you.

That is why we must be "born again". You cannot even see the mark. IMO

BBob,

 

[DHK]

That is why we must be "born again". You cannot even see the mark. IMO

BBob,

Being born again doesn't eradicate your sin nature. You still have the propensity to sin, and you still sin. In fact you sin by choice. Those who deny that they sin, call Jesus a liar and the truth is not in them (1John 1:8,10).

 

[Brother Bob]

Being born again doesn't eradicate your sin nature. You still have the propensity to sin, and you still sin. In fact you sin by choice. Those who deny that they sin, call Jesus a liar and the truth is not in them (1John 1:8,10).

Well, the world sins by choice, that is for sure.

Choose ye this day, whom ye shall serve??

BBob,

 

[DHK]

Well, the world sins by choice, that is for sure.

Choose ye this day, whom ye shall serve??

BBob,

You choose; but you will sin!
Are you as sinless and perfect as Christ?
If not you will sin and do sin. And you sin by your own choice.
If you do not admit to that, you are claiming deity. Only Christ was sinless.

 

[Brother Bob]

You choose; but you will sin!
Are you as sinless and perfect as Christ?
If not you will sin and do sin. And you sin by your own choice.
If you do not admit to that, you are claiming deity. Only Christ was sinless.

Never said I was, I still have this old body of flesh.

Bbob,

 

[Marcia]

Brother Bob said:

I would like to ask you why does the body go to the grave because of sin and the soul has sin also, but goes to heaven. If God cleansed up the soul at the "born again", then why not the body also. You say the soul sins also, then how does it receive heaven, and the body the grave?

When God sees Christ's righteous, why does that not cover the body also. Do you have an answer please.

I mean you give the soul "special" rewards of heaven, but the body the grave, why?

BBob asked me this on the thread that just closed and I thought this was a good forum to answer it in.

TO BBob: I think you are assuming that when God cleansed "the soul" that we don't sin in our soul anymore, just in our body. This is what I got from your explanations on the other thread, so you I think you are saying that our souls or inward man does not sin but our bodies do.

This makes no sense because our bodies are not the source of sin; it is our will that is the source of sin. Our will is part of the inward man.

When God cleanses us, that does not make us sinless; it means we are justified. You say that because our body goes to the grave and our spirit/soul goes to heaven, it is because our body is unclean and not regenerated yet.

It is true our body is not regenerated the way our soul is at the same time -- this is because we still are in a body of age and decay and must follow that through to the end, like Jesus did.

I've been thinking a lot about this last point. This is the answer, BBob: our bodies go to the grave because Jesus is the firstfruits of the bodily resurrection, and his body went to the grave first. Therefore, our bodies must also go to the grave, to be resurrected after physical death.

Just as Jesus got his glorified body after physical death, so must we.

So I think your view has 2 flaws, namely:
1) When we are regenerated, our inward man is sinless but our body is still sinful

2) Our bodies go to the grave because they are not cleansed (are sinful)


I just explained #2. As for #1, being regenerated does not mean we are sinless. Being cleansed means we who have beleived on Christ have been justified, that is, declared righteous in the sight of God due to Christ's atonement.

 

[Brother Bob]

Brother Bob said:


BBob asked me this on the thread that just closed and I thought this was a good forum to answer it in.

TO BBob: I think you are assuming that when God cleansed "the soul" that we don't sin in our soul anymore, just in our body. This is what I got from your explanations on the other thread, so you I think you are saying that our souls or inward man does not sin but our bodies do.

This makes no sense because our bodies are not the source of sin; it is our will that is the source of sin. Our will is part of the inward man.

When God cleanses us, that does not make us sinless; it means we are justified. You say that because our body goes to the grave and our spirit/soul goes to heaven, it is because our body is unclean and not regenerated yet.

It is true our body is not regenerated the way our soul is at the same time -- this is because we still are in a body of age and decay and must follow that through to the end, like Jesus did.

I've been thinking a lot about this last point. This is the answer, BBob: our bodies go to the grave because Jesus is the firstfruits of the bodily resurrection, and his body went to the grave first. Therefore, our bodies must also go to the grave, to be resurrected after physical death.

Just as Jesus got his glorified body after physical death, so must we.

So I think your view has 2 flaws, namely:
1) When we are regenerated, our inward man is sinless but our body is still sinful

2) Our bodies go to the grave because they are not cleansed (are sinful)


I just explained #2. As for #1, being regenerated does not mean we are sinless. Being cleansed means we who have beleived on Christ have been justified, that is, declared righteous in the sight of God due to Christ's atonement.

Sorry Marcia; I believe a Christian is better than that.

1Jn 3:4 Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.
5 And ye know that he was manifested to take away our sins; and in him is no sin.
6 Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him.
7 Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.
8 He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.
9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.
10 In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother.

My question to all is how can I preach righteousness if I am not righteous? It's not my righteousness, it is His son's righteousness that makes me righteous. How can I preach against sin to you if I go out and sin? Does the word hypocrite sound familiar? The problem is we come up with our own definition of what sin is then turn around and claim Gods people are guilty.

For those of you who still sin, are you continually crucifying Christ? Hasn't He died enough for our sin's

So, you will need to be cleansed when you die, so your soul can enter heaven??

18: For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not.
19: For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do.
20: Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.
21: I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me.
22: For I delight in the law of God after the inward man:
23: But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.
24: O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?
25: I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.


BBob,

 

[Marcia]

BBob, you totally ignored my points.

What about the part about the body going to the grave like Jesus? Do you accept that as the basis for our bodies going to the grave?

 

[Brother Bob]

BBob, you totally ignored my points.

What about the part about the body going to the grave like Jesus? Do you accept that as the basis for our bodies going to the grave?

No, I accept that in Adam, we all die.
It is an appointment that we go to the grave, has nothing to do with our sins. Babies die.

BBob,

 

[Marcia]

No, I accept that in Adam, we all die.
It is an appointment that we go to the grave, has nothing to do with our sins. Babies die.

BBob,

Who are you and what have you done with BBob?

Until this point, you were arguing that the body goes to the grave because it's not "cleansed" and our spirit goes to heaven because it's cleansed (and it seems you mean sinless).

Now, all of a sudden, you just say our bodies go to the grave because we die.

 

[Brother Bob]

Who are you and what have you done with BBob?

Until this point, you were arguing that the body goes to the grave because it's not "cleansed" and our spirit goes to heaven because it's cleansed (and it seems you mean sinless).

Now, all of a sudden, you just say our bodies go to the grave because we die.

I have said no different, we inherited Adam's sin. Babies don't sin, but yet they die, because of the sin of Adam. Don't you believe you will die, whether you sin or not??? When we sin, we bring on the "second death" and if we do not accept Christ in to our lives, then we will be in the LoF.

If it were the Natuaral death only, men would be better off that are not saved. It will be BBob, in both cases.

BBob

 

[trustitl]

Well, the world sins by choice, that is for sure.

Choose ye this day, whom ye shall serve??

BBob,

Brother Bob you have a strange position here. You told DHK "You cannot even see the mark" before one is born again. In other words an unbeliever has no idea what is right or wrong. And then later you add the above statement. How is it they cannot "see the mark" but can still choose?

You have the death penalty for losers in pin the tail on the donkey.

Hebrews 10 is talking about accepting or rejecting Christ. The writer is contrasting the Old Covenant with the new. Under the Old Covenant when one rejected Moses' law "He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses".

If one willingly rejects Christ the writer says the following:

"Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace? "

Look at the warnings in this section of scripture and you will see the "willing sin" that is being talked about. This is where DHK and I will part part ways for he will maintain OSAS.

The exhortation is clear:
"Let us hold fast the profession of our faith without wavering" 10:23
"Cast not away therefore your confidence, which hath great recompence of reward." 10:35
"For ye have need of patience, that, after ye have done the will of God, ye might receive the promise." 10:36
"Now the just shall live by faith: but if any man draw back, my soul shall have no pleasure in him."10:38
"But we are not of them who draw back unto perdition; but of them that believe to the saving of the soul." 10:39

 

[Brother Bob]

Brother Bob you have a strange position here. You told DHK "You cannot even see the mark" before one is born again. In other words an unbeliever has no idea what is right or wrong. And then later you add the above statement. How is it they cannot "see the mark" but can still choose?

You have the death penalty for losers in pin the tail on the donkey.

Hebrews 10 is talking about accepting or rejecting Christ. The writer is contrasting the Old Covenant with the new. Under the Old Covenant when one rejected Moses' law "He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses".

If one willingly rejects Christ the writer says the following:

"Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace? "

Look at the warnings in this section of scripture and you will see the "willing sin" that is being talked about. This is where DHK and I will part part ways for he will maintain OSAS.

The exhortation is clear:
"Let us hold fast the profession of our faith without wavering" 10:23
"Cast not away therefore your confidence, which hath great recompence of reward." 10:35
"For ye have need of patience, that, after ye have done the will of God, ye might receive the promise." 10:36
"Now the just shall live by faith: but if any man draw back, my soul shall have no pleasure in him."10:38
"But we are not of them who draw back unto perdition; but of them that believe to the saving of the soul." 10:39

If you believe what you just quoted, then quit telling Christians they can draw back to every sin known to mankind, but tell them:

1Jo 2:4He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.

BBob,

 

[DHK]

If you believe what you just quoted, then quit telling Christians they can draw back to every sin known to mankind, but tell them:

1Jo 2:4He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.

BBob,

Bob, in the past you have admitted that you do sin.
The Bible defines sin as a transgression of the law. All sin is a transgression of the law.
By your own admission, and according to the Bible's definition of sin, you must admit that the truth is not in you. At leas this is what you have posted. Is this correct?

 

[Marcia]

I have said no different, we inherited Adam's sin. Babies don't sin, but yet they die, because of the sin of Adam. Don't you believe you will die, whether you sin or not??? When we sin, we bring on the "second death" and if we do not accept Christ in to our lives, then we will be in the LoF.

If it were the Natuaral death only, men would be better off that are not saved. It will be BBob, in both cases.

BBob

With all due respect, you changed your argument. No longer are you saying that the body dies because it is still sinful, unless you are meaning that when we inherit Adam's sin, it's in the body. That seems to be what you said before.

After I showed you that our body goes to the grave because it follows the pattern of Jesus' bodily resurrection, you seemed to switch to saying that death is just natural for us. What happened to the inward man being cleansed but the body not being cleansed? Do you think it is in our physical bodies only that believers carry sin?