'Christians don't sin'

[Brother Bob]

With all due respect, you changed your argument. No longer are you saying that the body dies because it is still sinful, unless you are meaning that when we inherit Adam's sin, it's in the body. That seems to be what you said before.

After I showed you that our body goes to the grave because it follows the pattern of Jesus' bodily resurrection, you seemed to switch to saying that death is just natural for us. What happened to the inward man being cleansed but the body not being cleansed? Do you think it is in our physical bodies only that believers carry sin?

Jeepers, I have did no such thing.

Rom 5:19For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous

It is still sin that causes us to go to the grave, but it is in being multiplied Adam. When we sin, we bring the second death, which scripture says that our bodies sin and also, the soul that sinneth, shall die.

We cannot escape the death that sends us to the grave, but we can be "born again" and escape the second death, which is a death for both soul and body.

I have changed nothing. You may be misunderstanding, but I have changed nothing. If it were possible for us not to sin, because of Adam's sin we were made sinners when we came to the age to know God and glorified Him not as God, for our soul died dead in sin. The body already had death pronounced upon it, because of the Sin of Adam. I have heard people say, "well, he died because he sinned", I never believed it then and I do not believe it now. He died because Adam sinned. He did die a death when he sinned but not the physical death, its called the second death and without the blood of Christ, both his soul and body will suffer that death.

When we inherit Adam's sin, it is in the body and we also inherited a spiritual that as the natural death is in most cases, it is in the future, when we come to the age of accountability. We don't come to an age and then go out in sin, we come to an age and then become accountable for all the wrongs we ever did, for then sin is imputed. If we die, physically because of Adam, before we reach this age of accountibility, then sin is not inputed, and we are not condemned to the second death.

I changed nothing, I preached this for 36 years. You just have not been around.

I do believe its the outward man that has the sin, after being "born again". If the outward man had been "born again" as the inward man has of a Christian, there would be no death for the Christian. The outward man, must wait for its change in the resurrection, when in Christ, it shall be made alive, for if the same Spirit be in you, (inward man), that raised Christ from the dead, it shall "also" quicken your mortal bodies. So, in this life, if we believe, we are made alive inwardly in Christ Jesus, and also will be made alive, outwardly in the resurrection, where both soul and body will delivered. For the creature itself shall be delivered ALSO from the bondage of corruption, unto the gloreous liberties of the Children of God.

I change NOTHING.

All people both saint and sinner die because of sin, which Adam committed. By one man came death. You have read that have you not??

BBob,

 

[Brother Bob]

Bob, in the past you have admitted that you do sin.
The Bible defines sin as a transgression of the law. All sin is a transgression of the law.
By your own admission, and according to the Bible's definition of sin, you must admit that the truth is not in you. At leas this is what you have posted. Is this correct?

All that which is not of faith is sin.
Also, you speak as a foolish man when you ask me to say, that the truth is not in me. IMO Go blow your smoke somewhere else, if that is all you have to say. Quit questioning my salvation or I will report you.

BBob,

 

[trustitl]

If you believe what you just quoted, then quit telling Christians they can draw back to every sin known to mankind, but tell them:

1Jo 2:4He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.

BBob,

Show me where I am telling Christians that they can "draw back to every sin known to mankind".

You have a confused understanding of scripture and are failing to see what is being pointed out to you because you are so impressed with yourself for being hard on sin.

The writer of Hebrews let us know that sin is not to be taken lightly due to the effect on the heart. However, he never went as far as you do with your strange view that a sin will make you lose your salvation. We need to be encouraging each other in our walk with the Lord, not confusing them into thinking they don't sin. They will either know they sin and not be honest about their struggles or join you in in your deception.

According to you the following verse should read: "Warn each other every Sunday and Wednesday night lest any of you commit a sin on the list of sins that can make you lose your salvation".

"But exhort one another daily, while it is called To day; lest any of you be hardened through the deceitfulness of sin." Heb. 3:13


"Cast not away therefore your confidence, which hath great recompence of reward." 10:35

My confidence is with Paul, and that being in the blood of Christ. You appear to have your confidence in not sinning "willfully".

 

[Brother Bob]

Show me where I am telling Christians that they can "draw back to every sin known to mankind".

You have a confused understanding of scripture and are failing to see what is being pointed out to you because you are so impressed with yourself for being hard on sin.

The writer of Hebrews let us know that sin is not to be taken lightly due to the effect on the heart. However, he never went as far as you do with your strange view that a sin will make you lose your salvation. We need to be encouraging each other in our walk with the Lord, not confusing them into thinking they don't sin. They will either know they sin and not be honest about their struggles or join you in in your deception.

According to you the following verse should read: "Warn each other every Sunday and Wednesday night lest any of you commit a sin on the list of sins that can make you lose your salvation".

"But exhort one another daily, while it is called To day; lest any of you be hardened through the deceitfulness of sin." Heb. 3:13


"Cast not away therefore your confidence, which hath great recompence of reward." 10:35

My confidence is with Paul, and that being in the blood of Christ. You appear to have your confidence in not sinning "willfully".

Sorry Trusti;
You are completely reading me falsely. I have never hinted that you can lose your salvation.
Now, I am a strong believer in trying to live as close to God as you can. I frown at the comments I read on here that Christians can commit any sin known unto mankind. It is not the kind of Church I belong to, or know of. I never was introduced to this kind of belief before coming on BB. I have read things on here that stand the scripture on its head. Because I promote a Christian living a Christlike life, I am being condemned. Seems to me that is the "message of God Himself".

You say that I am "impressed" with myself. That is showing that you are harboring some kind of negative feeling against me and all I do, is tell people to live as close as you can, for you only pass this way but once. I am not impressed with myself, I am just thankful that Christ chose me as one of His own and when I give my life to Him, I gave it all.

It is wrong, the message that is being displayed on here by many, that Christians can commit any sin and go to heaven. I say that Christian are led by the Spirit of God and that Spirit does not lead them down that path of destruction.

BBob,

 

[DHK]

All that which is not of faith is sin.
Also, you speak as a foolish man when you ask me to say, that the truth is not in me. IMO Go blow your smoke somewhere else, if that is all you have to say. Quit questioning my salvation or I will report you.

BBob,

I'm not Bob. I am quoting what you have said, and what the Bible says and putting them together. It shows the inconsistency of your position. You should at least admit that much.
1. You have admitted that you have sinned.
2. All sin is a transgression of the law (1John 3:4)
3. Your own statement, a quote from 1John 2:4:
He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.

You have sinned.
You have not kept his commandments therefore.
Therefore the truth is not in you.

I am using these verses in the same context that you use them against us. For you don't believe that A.T. Robertson's explanations is right. You don't believe there is any "habitual" in any of these statements. Therefore, by your own words and usage of these verses you condemn yourself. Right?

 

[Brother Bob]

I'm not Bob. I am quoting what you have said, and what the Bible says and putting them together. It shows the inconsistency of your position. You should at least admit that much.
1. You have admitted that you have sinned.
2. All sin is a transgression of the law (1John 3:4)
3. Your own statement, a quote from 1John 2:4:
He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.

You have sinned.
You have not kept his commandments therefore.
Therefore the truth is not in you.

I am using these verses in the same context that you use them against us. For you don't believe that A.T. Robertson's explanations is right. You don't believe there is any "habitual" in any of these statements. Therefore, by your own words and usage of these verses you condemn yourself. Right?

No, for I ask a question and did not say you hated me.
I have kept His commandments. IMO

BBob,

 

[DHK]

No, for I ask a question and did not say you hated me.
I have kept His commandments. IMO

BBob,

Read through this post of yours Bob:

http://www.baptistboard.com/showpost.php?p=1275521&postcount=207

Note the statement:

You hate me that much??

I don't hate you Bob. That is a false accusation that you made. It is right there, verified in that quote. You don't have to have question marks behind it to hide it as an accusation. It is still there. It is there in bold for emphasis.

If it was a question from one brother to another brother, and the Bible calls it murder, did the so-called question need to have been asked in the first place?
It doesn't appear to be a question. Either way it is not in good taste is it?

 

[Brother Bob]

Read through this post of yours Bob:

http://www.baptistboard.com/showpost.php?p=1275521&postcount=207

Note the statement:

[/b]I don't hate you Bob. That is a false accusation that you made. It is right there, verified in that quote. You don't have to have question marks behind it to hide it as an accusation. It is still there. It is there in bold for emphasis.

If it was a question from one brother to another brother, and the Bible calls it murder, did the so-called question need to have been asked in the first place?
It doesn't appear to be a question. Either way it is not in good taste is it?

No wonder we have trouble understanding, when you don't know a ? mark means, its asking you a question. The scripture in original Greek, did not have question marks, but when I ask you a question, and put question marks after it, then its a question. I am amazed that you would even post this, as if you do not know its a question. It shows lack of understanding in the English language. IMO

BBob,

 

[trustitl]

Bob, you have me confused. You say a person cannot lose their salvation, but then try to use the following verse in your argument that people cannot willfully sin and expect to get into heaven:

"For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins"

You wonder why I don't understand you? Your favorite verse is immediately after:

"Not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as the manner of some is; but exhorting one another: and so much the more, as ye see the day approaching."

A few questions:
Who is the "we" who have received the "knowledge of the truth"?
Who is the "ourselves" assembling in the second verse?
What is the effect of "there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins"?

 

[DHK]

I'm not Bob. I am quoting what you have said, and what the Bible says and putting them together. It shows the inconsistency of your position. You should at least admit that much.
1. You have admitted that you have sinned.
2. All sin is a transgression of the law (1John 3:4)
3. Your own statement, a quote from 1John 2:4:
He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.

You have sinned.
You have not kept his commandments therefore.
Therefore the truth is not in you.

I am using these verses in the same context that you use them against us. For you don't believe that A.T. Robertson's explanations is right. You don't believe there is any "habitual" in any of these statements. Therefore, by your own words and usage of these verses you condemn yourself. Right?

Bob this has nothing to do with the red herring you brought over from another thread. Never mind personal attacks.
The above are simple statements that you have made.
They are Scripture you have quoted, and interpreted the way that you use them.
How can anyone come to the conclusion other than what I have posted if we don't interpret Scripture differently than you do. Your own usage of the Bible condemns you, does it not? Please clarify.

 

[Brother Bob]

Bob, you have me confused. You say a person cannot lose their salvation, but then try to use the following verse in your argument that people cannot willfully sin and expect to get into heaven:

"For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins"

You wonder why I don't understand you? Your favorite verse is immediately after:

"Not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as the manner of some is; but exhorting one another: and so much the more, as ye see the day approaching."

A few questions:
Who is the "we" who have received the "knowledge of the truth"?
Who is the "ourselves" assembling in the second verse?
What is the effect of "there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins"?

The confusion is that I believe these scriptures are teaching us that Christians do no do those things and how impossible it is for them to do so.

I would much rather believe they had never really been saved to start with, but were confused in their salvation, than to believe someone had sinned the day of Grace away.

BBob,

 

[Brother Bob]

Bob this has nothing to do with the red herring you brought over from another thread. Never mind personal attacks.
The above are simple statements that you have made.
They are Scripture you have quoted, and interpreted the way that you use them.
How can anyone come to the conclusion other than what I have posted if we don't interpret Scripture differently than you do. Your own usage of the Bible condemns you, does it not? Please clarify.

Not guilty.....................:thumbs:

But the names you have called me and the false accusations you have made against me, sure puts you in danger. IMO

BBob,

 

[Marcia]

....When we inherit Adam's sin, it is in the body and we also inherited a spiritual that as the natural death is in most cases, it is in the future, when we come to the age of accountability. We don't come to an age and then go out in sin, we come to an age and then become accountable for all the wrongs we ever did, for then sin is imputed. If we die, physically because of Adam, before we reach this age of accountibility, then sin is not inputed, and we are not condemned to the second death.

I changed nothing, I preached this for 36 years. You just have not been around.

I do believe its the outward man that has the sin, after being "born again". If the outward man had been "born again" as the inward man has of a Christian, there would be no death for the Christian. The outward man, must wait for its change in the resurrection, when in Christ, it shall be made alive, for if the same Spirit be in you, (inward man), that raised Christ from the dead, it shall "also" quicken your mortal bodies. So, in this life, if we believe, we are made alive inwardly in Christ Jesus, and also will be made alive, outwardly in the resurrection, where both soul and body will delivered. For the creature itself shall be delivered ALSO from the bondage of corruption, unto the gloreous liberties of the Children of God.

I change NOTHING.

All people both saint and sinner die because of sin, which Adam committed. By one man came death. You have read that have you not??

BBob,

Well, if I misunderstood you, I'm sorry. But I still have questions about what you are saying here. However, I will not pursue it as I do not think we communicate well and it's too time consuming.

 

[trustitl]

The confusion is that I believe these scriptures are teaching us that Christians do no do those things and how impossible it is for them to do so.

I would much rather believe they had never really been saved to start with, but were confused in their salvation, than to believe someone had sinned the day of Grace away.

OK, now I know what what you would "rather believe". But now would you consider answering my simple questions?

"For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins"

"Not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as the manner of some is; but exhorting one another: and so much the more, as ye see the day approaching."

A few questions:
Who is the "we" who have received the "knowledge of the truth"?
Who is the "ourselves" assembling in the second verse?
What is the effect of "there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins"?

And I will add:
"Take heed, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief, in departing from the living God. But exhort one another daily, while it is called To day; lest any of you be hardened through the deceitfulness of sin." Heb. 3:12-13

Who are the brethren?
What is departing from the living God?
What is hardening of the heart due to sin?
Whose heart is being hardened?

 

[Brother Bob]

OK, now I know what what you would "rather believe". But now would you consider answering my simple questions?

"For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins"

"Not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as the manner of some is; but exhorting one another: and so much the more, as ye see the day approaching."

A few questions:
Who is the "we" who have received the "knowledge of the truth"?
Who is the "ourselves" assembling in the second verse?
What is the effect of "there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins"?

And I will add:
"Take heed, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief, in departing from the living God. But exhort one another daily, while it is called To day; lest any of you be hardened through the deceitfulness of sin." Heb. 3:12-13

Who are the brethren?
What is departing from the living God?
What is hardening of the heart due to sin?
Whose heart is being hardened?

There are some hard sayings in scripture and many will not stand up to the plate. This is my take on those scripture, but others feel different. I will go with what I feel to be the truth, for it usually has proven out. Either a woman gets them, or money in some way influences them.

1Jo 2:19They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would [no doubt] have continued with us: but [they went out], that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us.

You know, these people are among us, or the Lord would not of told us.

I don't think we lose our salvation, but there are those who have lived among us for many years, longer than I been here, and end up revealing what has been hidden all along. I know preachers who were in adultereous affairs, yet preached every Sunday. It eventually came out, as the Lord said, there is nothing hidden that shall not be revealed.

You may not believe as I do, but don't become offended at me, for what I feel to be the truth.

What some advocate is that almost everything is sin, and Christians commit them all, but whatever it they do, it is already covered at the cross. That can't be true, or there would be no chastisement, there would be no need of all these scripture, the entire Bible, teaching us how to live without committing all these sins. I will never believe the cross is a "get out of Jail free ticket".


BBob,

 

[Brother Bob]

Well, if I misunderstood you, I'm sorry. But I still have questions about what you are saying here. However, I will not pursue it as I do not think we communicate well and it's too time consuming.

No problem Marcia;
I went to a lot of trouble to try and explain it to you, but seems either you mind is set, or we do not communicate well. It seems rather simple to me, if you believe that babies are without sin, for they die also.

BBob,

 

[trustitl]

Brother Bob, I read your last post two times and I came to two conclusions:

1. I don't know what you were trying to say in that last post, and

2. I do know that you did not even think about answering my questions.

 

[DHK]

1Jo 2:19They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would [no doubt] have continued with us: but [they went out], that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us.

You know, these people are among us, or the Lord would not of told us.

In the above verse you referenced, John is primarily speaking of false teachers bring false doctrine. False teachers do not remain faithful to churches that continue to faithfully teach the truth, especially those who preach against false doctrine. John's epistle preaches against false doctrine.

I don't think we lose our salvation, but there are those who have lived among us for many years, longer than I been here, and end up revealing what has been hidden all along. I know preachers who were in adultereous affairs, yet preached every Sunday. It eventually came out, as the Lord said, there is nothing hidden that shall not be revealed.

And if they were saved they didn't lose their salvation.
There is no cop-out on your part, where you suddenly become judge and jury (playing the part of God) and decide for yourself, that this person is not saved. God knows them that are his. Yes, a believer may have an adulterous affair. It is possible. But we do not live our lives according to the gospel of Bob.
Your theology leaves no room for forgiveness of sin for such a believer.
In your theology the blood of Jesus Christ is not sufficient enough to cover "the big sins" as you would say, if a believer would commit them, especially if he committed them near death, and didn't have the time to repent of them.

You may not believe as I do, but don't become offended at me, for what I feel to be the truth.

Christ is the truth, and He has revealed himself through his Word.
You say "what you feel to be the truth." Truth is not relative. If one runs their life by their feelings truth is relative and emotional.

What some advocate is that almost everything is sin, and Christians commit them all, but whatever it they do, it is already covered at the cross.

All sins are covered at the cross. If they weren't then Christ didn't die for all our sins, contrary to John 3:16. I thought you believed that Christ died for the sins of the world. If he died for the sins of the world, that means he died for my sins as well--and that means all of them. He died for all the sins in every age throughout all of history. Thus that must be the sins of future generations as well, and includes my future sins as well. It can't be any other way.
If he didn't die for my future sins, then his blood was not powerful or sufficient enough to pay for them. Then we are all still lost in our sins, and have no hope of reaching heaven. We are all condemned. There is no hope if Christ did not die for our future sins. You don't understand that?

That in no way gives any Christian a license to sin. And if you keep suggesting such reasoning you are simply misrepresenting us that post on this board--that is lying about us. No one is suggesting that we have a license to sin--no one. So put that argument, that strawman, to rest.

That can't be true, or there would be no chastisement, there would be no need of all these scripture, the entire Bible, teaching us how to live without committing all these sins. I will never believe the cross is a "get out of Jail free ticket".

The very fact that a person is born again, made a child of God, makes sure that God will chastise him for his sin. A Father disciplines his children, does he not. He doesn't cast him out of the family; he disciplines him. Do you not believe in eternal security? My children have made many mistakes, some of them worse than others. I have never threatened to kick them out of the family--never. But I have disciplined them. Our heavenly Father does the same.

 

[Brother Bob]

In the above verse you referenced, John is primarily speaking of false teachers bring false doctrine. False teachers do not remain faithful to churches that continue to faithfully teach the truth, especially those who preach against false doctrine. John's epistle preaches against false doctrine.

Doesn't have to be false teachers, can also be false Christians.

And if they were saved they didn't lose their salvation.
There is no cop-out on your part, where you suddenly become judge and jury (playing the part of God) and decide for yourself, that this person is not saved. God knows them that are his. Yes, a believer may have an adulterous affair. It is possible. But we do not live our lives according to the gospel of Bob.
Your theology leaves no room for forgiveness of sin for such a believer.
In your theology the blood of Jesus Christ is not sufficient enough to cover "the big sins" as you would say, if a believer would commit them, especially if he committed them near death, and didn't have the time to repent of them.

You got that right, I do not believe Christians do such things to start with, for they are kept by the power of God.

Christ is the truth, and He has revealed himself through his Word.
You say "what you feel to be the truth." Truth is not relative. If one runs their life by their feelings truth is relative and emotional.

You cross yourself, you say that Christ is the "Truth" and then turn around and say that "Truth" is not relative. Its saying that Christ Himself is not relative. Your theology stinks.

All sins are covered at the cross. If they weren't then Christ didn't die for all our sins, contrary to John 3:16. I thought you believed that Christ died for the sins of the world. If he died for the sins of the world, that means he died for my sins as well--and that means all of them. He died for all the sins in every age throughout all of history. Thus that must be the sins of future generations as well, and includes my future sins as well. It can't be any other way.
If he didn't die for my future sins, then his blood was not powerful or sufficient enough to pay for them. Then we are all still lost in our sins, and have no hope of reaching heaven. We are all condemned. There is no hope if Christ did not die for our future sins. You don't understand that?

I know, I understand if we sin, we have an advocate with God. You say your sins are never to be remembered and then turn around and say you recieve an "early" death if you commit certain sins. You also say all sin is sin, but for some you recieve a more severe punishment, even though you say they are not to be remembered. Your theology is all over the place.

That in no way gives any Christian a license to sin. And if you keep suggesting such reasoning you are simply misrepresenting us that post on this board--that is lying about us. No one is suggesting that we have a license to sin--no one. So put that argument, that strawman, to rest.

I would not like it either if I advocated that because you have the blood of Christ, you can commit any sin and someone said its a license to sin, which it would be. If you don't like it, change your doctrine.

The very fact that a person is born again, made a child of God, makes sure that God will chastise him for his sin. A Father disciplines his children, does he not. He doesn't cast him out of the family; he disciplines him. Do you not believe in eternal security? My children have made many mistakes, some of them worse than others. I have never threatened to kick them out of the family--never. But I have disciplined them. Our heavenly Father does the same.

Yet He will not remember them again. You need to get on one side of the fence or the other. Your theology is double talk. IMO

BBob,

 

[Brother Bob]

Brother Bob, I read your last post two times and I came to two conclusions:

1. I don't know what you were trying to say in that last post, and

2. I do know that you did not even think about answering my questions.

Answer to all your questions are Christians, "if it were possible" for them to commits such acts. If we do not lose our salvation, then it is impossible to commit such acts, for it is plain that if you do these things, then you would have used up your sacrifice and put God to an open shame. I think its telling you and me how "impossible" it is for the saved to commit these things. Some on here beieve you can commit them all and it would mean nothing for you are covered by the blood, yet scripture says different. Either the "some" are right, or scripture is right. IMO

BBob,