Christians not much different than unbelievers

I don't think I ever pointed you or anyone else out Shiloh.

On the other hand you have no idea what SBC or me or anyone else preach about who what our standards are.

 

Oh, my! I agree with you! I think. It matters what you espouse as legalism?

I see the full spectrum in preachers and their charisma: some are landblasters and get the applause of the unsuspecting. Some are liberals is disguise and win the affections of those with accelerated affections.

I pray to be balanced: dress morally, moderately, modestly.

I give ample time to see the motive behind the action, but cannot tolerate a backbiter.

Those who talk about others talk about me, though they're giving the others a break when they talk about me.

I have found that professing "Christians" are worse than the world when it comes to how they treat their own.

 

C4K,

I have to admit, I haven't read all 5 pages of this thread. In scanning it over a little, Id have to say that I don't think it was handled very well by a couple of people.....

I guess I was sort of trying to sidestep all that and just talk to the OP about what I really thought on the issue.


Let me say, and this may stir up even more trouble though I hope not, but I stand most often on the side of the more conservative issues all over this board. For the most part, I have no problem fellowshipping with the majority of people here, no matter what their individual stances may be on "side issues." However, some people can come across as very mocking of those of us who hold to these sorts of stances. They deride and rail on us. While sometimes I think our reactions can go way overboard as well, I can also understand why some old-time preachers within my types of circles would come in to this board and be oft-times incensed to the point where they type whatever comes to mind.

We've already discussed the double standard there exists over this, but way too often the stance itself, or the movement the person comes from is blamed entirely for their reaction and/or attitude.

I went through high school at a church that would be seen as very strict here....and there were alot of kids who just ignored their parents and went off and lived like the world. But it wasn't because of the strict standards. It was because the parents didn't really pay attention to their kids. They relied on the church to do all the raising and rearing, and for the most part a deacon board makes a poor substitute parent.

You guys are right....when the rules are meaningless they won't do any good for the kids. But when you put context on those rules, flesh them out with reasons and a relationship with the adults around them....than the kids are more likely not to rebel....even if they grow up to have different standards or rules. That relationship with our kids is the most important thing to get down right.

 

They apparently didn't reject Spurgeon.

You have not established biblically that all drinking of alcohol as a beverage is sin. In fact, the scripture stands against you on that matter. We have a cultural restriction that should be taken in light of 1 Corinthians... but not a direct scriptural prohibition.

Smoking does hurt a testimony and should be avoided but again that is a cultural concern rather than a biblical declaration. Forty years ago smoking wasn't universally considered "wrong".

The biblical thing to preach on these subjects is discernment and judgment concerning our testimonies... not contrived legalism or made up human standards that go beyond what God said.

Mocking preachers? No. Calling a spade a spade? Yes. Condescending, proud legalists certainly draw people... but not those sincerely wanting to follow Christ. Christ and Paul both were harder on the legalists than they were the gross sinner.

 

Christ and Paul both were harder on the legalists than they were the gross sinner.
-------------------------------------------------
Finally.....one of you guys got it right!

 

Scott J,

I think we agree, but may I ask a question to clarify?

Do you mean to say then that we should throw out standards in an attempt to "appeal" more to the world?

Or is it the attitude you are striving against, rather than the actual stance?

 

Shiloh,

I'm a independent baptist. Your attitude is the kind of attitude that gives us all a bad name.
On almost all the posts I ever read of yours you very seldom address people without a smart alec mouth.
You often times don't present any scriptual argument when debating often times it seems that your trying to symbolically shout the other person down.
When people on this board want to debate the inerrancy of Scripture or things like "sin nature" like Craigbythesea was doing the other night or theistic evolution. Those things are worth fighting for because they strike at the core of the authority of Scripture. But running people in the ground because the drink in moderation or have contemporary worship or women wearing pants those things are not essential.
Guess what? Those who are saved and sprinkled instead of immersed are going to be just as saved as you or I as long as they have trusted Christ as their personal Savior.
I can't stand it when you equate being fundamental with being "old fashioned independent baptist". I didn't know that old fashioned IFB had a monopoly on the fundamentals of the faith?

I'm a IFB myself. I'm very conservative in my views. I don't drink, dip smoke or chew or run with those who do. I like hard, fire and brimstone preaching. I use the KJV.
I got news for you bub. A guy may have hair down to his kneecaps and a beard to match. He may take a social drink, go to movies and read a different version of the bible. He may even play the drums etc... Which alot of what I just mentioned is not my style. Yet however if that fellow is saved by the blood of Jesus Christ and he believes in the inerrancy of Scripture, the virgin birth, the resurection, literal hell, eternal damnation etc.. Then he is not a liberal I don't care what you or anybody else says. He would be a brother in Christ. I may not want to go to his church or participate in his style of ministry but when he bumps in to me heaven I don't want him to be suprised when I greet him because of all the times I shunned him down here on earth.

I simply get worn out listening to IFB of your bent who act like they are the only ones left on the planet that are doing anything RIGHT for the cause of Christ.
All folk outside of IFB circles are not liberals nor are the IFB the only ones left holding the banner high for the cause of Christ. If that is what you think then friend your going to be in for a big surprise in heaven.
Adrian Rogers was one of the best expository preachers there was in the latter half of the 20th century. His church service was not much different than alot of IFB churches of traditional styles. Yet guys of your persuasion would call him a liberal if for no other reason than having a limited vocabulary and because Rogers was a lifelong SBC man. I'm just using that as an example. Secondary seperation is goint to be the one of the death knells of your brand of IFB beliefs along with KJVOism.
Your distorted views of fundamentalism doesn't promote or spread the positive message of fundamentalism your views are helping to destroy it.

 

Very good post Shannon, thanks for sharing your thoughts.

 

shannonL, what's the "L" stand for[moderator edited out personal attack]? Who licked the red off your candy? When did I write against women wearing pants? I don't use Scripture? I'm sorry for the way I come across, I can be a nice guy. However I tend to be a little blunt to some [***people***] who purposely twist Scripture to condone their ungodly lifestyle. You show me in the Bible where the Lord Jesus tells us that we don't have to be any different than the world.....and I'll shut up.

[***Rephrased by Moderator*** This is your formal warning: Debate the issues and do not make personal attacks.]

[ February 09, 2006, 01:08 AM: Message edited by: Bible-boy ]

 

whoa...is name calling really necessary?

Wow.

 

Who is twisting scripture? Those that demand proof from scripture of what sin is, or those that don't like a woman to wear pants, then search the scriptures to try and wiggle their views into them. Adding a concept or doctrine to scripture the way KJVO, separatist, IFB liberals do is just wrong.

Yes, I said liberals because you guys are changing what the church (universal!!) has stood for for since the day of pentecost.. notice I said pentecost!

I was raised IFB, but like I said earlier on BB. I believe in the fundamentals, but don't you dare call me a fundamentalist!! Those are fighting words...

The original fundamentalists would roll over in their graves, if their souls were there, to see what those that "call" themselves fundamentalist today stood for.

What hypocrisy... I was always taught that to be a true fundamentalist you must only base your doctrine on the Bible...

I guess I was wrong, because today's fundamentalists base their doctrines on what "The Sword of the Lord" says! Or Jack Chick!

Shannon, I agree 110% with you.

[ February 09, 2006, 01:32 AM: Message edited by: tinytim ]

 

Tater, don't worry about that stupidity. We can all see your heart for the Lord and the kids. It's obvious and I always enjoy your posts.

 

Wise words and I thank you for this great post.

 

Thumbs up from me to ShannonL as well. I too am an IFB, KJV user and congratulate Shannon for an EXCELLENT post.

 

From me too Shannon.....and Im one of those KJVo people that you probably don't like very well.

 

She probably doesn't like KJVO-ism but is perfectly happy to like people who believe in it. I don't follow KJVO but I like you.

 

Hey, I try!

 

Petrel, Shannon is a dude.

Shannon, outstanding post.

 

I shared some stats from Barna with a Sunday school class and the whole was rejected with a "Stats can be made to show anything." from the pastor.

I'm not sure most want to hear what is going on.

I've noticed a lot of blame being "not being taught." So, who isn't teaching? Parents, teachers, pastors? I personally have never heard messages/lessons on proper marriage, divorce, nor remarriage - well I did listen to the ones I delivered.

What is the answer now that the problem has been observed and identified? What am I going to do? Let's make some practical application.

Is it, in part, that Christians have set up an alternative world? Christian music is just like the worlds, other than some lyric changes. Christian television isn't a whole lot different that the worlds. It seems that there is a Christian world that has all that the world has, only we just call it Christian