CHRISTIANS

[gb93433]

CHRISTIANS
By Maya Angelou


When I say... "I am a Christian"
I'm not shouting "I'm clean livin'."
I'm whispering "I was lost,
Now I'm found and forgiven."

When I say... "I am a Christian"
I don't speak of this with pride.
I'm confessing that I stumble
and need Christ to be my guide.

When I say... "I am a Christian"
I'm not trying to be strong.
I'm professing that I'm weak
And need His strength to carry on.

When I say... "I am a Christian"
I'm not bragging of success.
I'm admitting I have failed
And need God to clean my mess.

When I say... "I am a Christian"
I'm not claiming to be perfect,
My flaws are far too visible
But, God believes I am worth it.

When I say... "I am a Christian"
I still feel the sting of pain.
I have my share of heartaches
So I call upon His name.

When I say... "I am a Christian"
I'm not holier than thou,
I'm just a simple sinner
Who received God's good grace, somehow!

 

[BobRyan]

2Cor 5
17 Therefore if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creature; the old things passed away; behold, new things have come.

Phil 3
7 But whatever things were gain to me, those things I have counted as loss for the sake of Christ.
8 More than that, I count all things to be loss in view of the surpassing value of knowing Christ Jesus my Lord, for whom I have suffered the loss of all things, and count them but rubbish so that I may gain Christ,
9 and may be found in Him, not having a righteousness of my own derived from the Law, but that which is through faith in Christ, the righteousness which comes from God on the basis of faith,
10 that I may know Him and the power of His resurrection and the fellowship of His sufferings, being conformed to His death;
11 in order that I may attain to the resurrection from the dead.
12 Not that I have already obtained it or have already become perfect, but I press on so that I may lay hold of that for which also I was laid hold of by Christ Jesus.
13 Brethren, I do not regard myself as having laid hold of it yet; but one thing I do: forgetting what lies behind and reaching forward to what lies ahead,
14 I press on toward the goal for the prize of the upward call of God in Christ Jesus.

1John 2
3 By this we know that we have come to know Him, if we keep His commandments.
4 The one who says, "" I have come to know Him,'' and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him;
5 but whoever keeps His word, in him the love of God has truly been perfected. By this we know that we are in Him:
6 the one who says he abides in Him ought himself to walk in the same manner as He walked.

Matt 7
17 ""So every good tree bears good fruit, but the bad tree bears bad fruit.
18 ""A good tree cannot produce bad fruit, nor can a bad tree produce good fruit.
19 "" Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire.
20 ""So then, you will know them by their fruits.

21 "" Not everyone who says to Me, "Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father who is in heaven will enter.

Rom 2
11 For there is no partiality with God.
12 For all who have sinned without the Law will also perish without the Law, and all who have sinned under the Law will be judged by the Law;
13 for it is not the hearers of the Law who are just before God, but the doers of the Law will be justified.

14 For when Gentiles who do not have the Law do instinctively the things of the Law, these, not having the Law, are a law to themselves,
15 in that they show the work of the Law written in their hearts, their conscience bearing witness and their thoughts alternately accusing or else defending them,
16 on the day when, according to my gospel, God will judge the secrets of men through Christ Jesus.

Rev 14
12 Here is the perseverance of the saints who keep the commandments of God and

Romans 2:8
but to those who are selfishly ambitious and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, wrath and indignation.


2 Thessalonians 1:8
dealing out retribution to those who do not know God and to those who do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus.

1 Peter 4:17
For it is time for judgment to begin with the household of God; and if it begins with us first, what will be the outcome for those who do not obey the gospel of God? their faith in Jesus.

Phil 3
17 Brethren, join in following my example, and observe those who walk according to the pattern you have in us.
18 For many walk, of whom I often told you, and now tell you even weeping, that they are enemies of the cross of Christ,
19 whose end is destruction, whose god is their appetite, and whose glory is in their shame, who set their minds on earthly things.

God has saved a world in rebellion -- calling us to leave rebellion and submit to Christ. What shall we do?

In Christ,

Bob

 

[Jarthur001]

Where as works does play a part in our walk with God, it is not part of salvation. So in order to be called a Christain, we would not have to do one good work. We are Christians because of the grace of God.


From the above post where there is a collection of verse pulled from many areas in the Bible, we see some still feel as if all MUST do good deeds or good works in order to be saved and have the right to call themselives Christains. I see no verses on grace listed above. Does the Bible say anything about grace? If grace is part of salvation, why would anyone leave this out, as they tell what a Christian is. Is this not the OP? Clearly we see above a means to do away with grace and replace it with our works.

Salvation is about what God has done, not what we do. Those that hold to grace as the Bible clearly teaches, do in fact carry out the commandments of God to the best of their abilities as stated in some of the verses listed above, yet this is not to be viewed as good works in order to find favor with God, as is the attitude we see above.

In Grace we go to church, share the gospel, worship God, and other things, for we love our Lord and would have it no other way. Without grace, we would do this for we had to do it in order to please God as we see above. This is the same attitude we see in the pagan world, where they must do things to please God. In this world it is the goal to have the good works out weigh the bad works.

When we take the verses listed about in full context and read them as they relate to grace, (and BTW grace is a BIG part of salvation) we see that Grace is Gods plan, and that these verse are not showing works and good deeds as part of salvation, but as a part of our walk with God.


In Christ....James

 

[gb93433]

Eph 2:8-10, "For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God; not as a result of works, so that no one may boast. For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand so that we would walk in them."

Prov. 24:16, "For a righteous man falls seven times, and rises again, But the wicked stumble in time of calamity."

 

[BobRyan]

Originally posted by Jarthur001:
Where as works does play a part in our walk with God, it is not part of salvation. So in order to be called a Christain, we would not have to do one good work. We are Christians because of the grace of God.


From the above post where there is a collection of verse pulled from many areas in the Bible, we see some still feel as if all MUST do good deeds or good works in order to be saved
and have the right to call themselives Christains. I see no verses on grace listed above.

I probably should not have quoted that part of scripture. I ask for your indulgence.

Surely that part of God's Word is meant for "someone else". I should have known better than to post that part of the NT that you consider to be outside of the Gospel of Christ.

Please feel free to highlight those books and chapters that you feel are opposed to the Gospel or devoid of the Gospel.

Please feel free to show how none of the texts I quoted make any reference at all to salvation or our standing with God.

I think this should be "instructive" for the reader.

Does the Bible say anything about grace?

Do you consider the Gospel to be devoid of Grace??

Rom 2
11 For there is no partiality with God.
12 For all who have sinned without the Law will also perish without the Law, and all who have sinned under the Law will be judged by the Law;
13 for it is not the hearers of the Law who are just before God, but the doers of the Law will be justified.

14 For when Gentiles who do not have the Law do instinctively the things of the Law, these, not having the Law, are a law to themselves,
15 in that they show the work of the Law written in their hearts, their conscience bearing witness and their thoughts alternately accusing or else defending them,
16 on the day when, according to my gospel, God will judge the secrets of men through Christ Jesus.

Did you catch that bit about "The Gospel" in what Paul said in Romans 2?? Are you still intent on divorcing these texts from the Gospel of Jesus Christ?

Do you consider salvation to be devoid of Grace??

When we take the verses listed about in full context and read them as they relate to grace, (and BTW grace is a BIG part of salvation) we see that Grace is Gods plan

Wonderful! Then you will ACCEPT thost text now instead of complaining that they were quoted?

In Christ,

Bob

 

[BobRyan]

Given the list of texts in this link
http://www.baptistboard.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php/topic/28/3776.html#000001

James said "I see no verses on grace listed above."

I wonder how many here would divorce those texts of NT scripture from grace as James claimes to have done.

In Christ,

Bob

 

[Jarthur001]

Hi ya Bob,

***************
Bob said this in his reply to not one verse on grace...

I probably should not have quoted that part of scripture. I ask for your indulgence.

Surely that part of God's Word is meant for "someone else". I should have known better than to post that part of the NT that you consider to be outside of the Gospel of Christ.

Please feel free to highlight those books and chapters that you feel are opposed to the Gospel or devoid of the Gospel.
********************
James....
I devoid none of the of the verses posted and never said I did. I saw some aspects of salvation not in your post. I point out that this is kinda funny that you list NO...NONE...not one verse on grace. Why? what do you run from? Is grace part of salvation, and if so...why not show it?
******************


Bob...
Please feel free to show how none of the texts I quoted make any reference at all to salvation or our standing with God.


James..
Do not dodge the subject Bob. Is Grace part of salvation...and if so...please list some verses showing this

*****************

Bob...
Do you consider the Gospel to be devoid of Grace??

James...
No. I would like to see you post a verse on the Grace of God in Salvation. Thats all I ask.
*******************
Bob post this AGAIN...
Rom 2[/b]
11 For there is no partiality with God.
12 For all who have sinned without the Law will also perish without the Law, and all who have sinned under the Law will be judged by the Law;
13 for it is not the hearers of the Law who are just before God, but the doers of the Law will be justified.

14 For when Gentiles who do not have the Law do instinctively the things of the Law, these, not having the Law, are a law to themselves,
15 in that they show the work of the Law written in their hearts, their conscience bearing witness and their thoughts alternately accusing or else defending them,
16 on the day when, according to my gospel, God will judge the secrets of men through Christ Jesus.

James...
The word Grace is not in those verse Bob. Again..arminianism hates to talk about Grace. They are afraid of the word. What does grace mean? When the Bible says saved by grace..what does it mean?
*****************

Bob........
Did you catch that bit about "The Gospel" in what Paul said in Romans 2??

James....

Yes Bob!! We got that verse We got it lat time too....but STILL nothing on grace. We get that verse about every other post from you. Now stick to the subject and stop evading grace. What about grace?
*****************

Bob..
Are you still intent on divorcing these texts from the Gospel of Jesus Christ?

James...
This is un real. No Bob those verse are great. nothing wrong with them at all. But why NO verses on grace? Understand what i'm asking?

In this thread listed below...
http://www.baptistboard.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php/topic/28/3752/5.html#000070

You claim that Calvinist run from some texted in the Bible. I went on to address the text. Now...how about Grace? You need to address grace.

Here is your task before you..

1) What is Grace? (with Bible verses to support...not just one..i want a whole list like your works list.)
2) What role does Grace play in salvation?

That seems easy.
*******************

Bob...
Do you consider salvation to be devoid of Grace??

James..
Don't be silly Bob.

****************
Bob replies to my post...
(james)
When we take the verses listed about in full context and read them as they relate to grace, (and BTW grace is a BIG part of salvation) we see that Grace is Gods plan

(bob)
Wonderful! Then you will ACCEPT thost text now instead of complaining that they were quoted?

James...
I never complained about them. I just saw many things missing. All your verses were about works. Let me ask again..what about grace? get it?


In Christ...James

 

[Jarthur001]

STILL DODGING?

Originally posted by BobRyan:
[QB] Given the list of texts in this link
http://www.baptistboard.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php/topic/28/3776.html#000001


James said "I see no verses on grace listed above."

I wonder how many here would divorce those texts of NT scripture from grace as James claimes to have done.

*****************

Again that is not the subject. Those verses are fine. Now once again....what about grace? Is grace part of salvation? If so..why not list verses that have grace and how we are saved?

let me help you with just one. I'll start the verse..you finish it.

For by Grace are you saved.......

There...I made it easy for you. All you need to do is finish the verse...and tell me what grace is...and your have one verse down.

Can you do it Bob?

Are you up for the big task?

Let me remind you. You posted the list...on your own. I only ask...what about grace? why was not ONE verse listed when we talk about what Christains are...and how they were saved.


In Christ..James

 

[steaver]

Eph 2:8-10, "For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God; not as a result of works, so that no one may boast. For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand so that we would walk in them."

Devastating blow to the "thou shalt not" camp!

Notice how scripture clearly defines itself when speaking about "salvation"? It is clear by using the word "saved" in the same breath with the words "free" "gift" "faith" and "not of yourselves".

Other passages which are put forth in support of a "works" salvation never are that precise now are they? One must "assume" that they are speaking about salvation-that is if one wants to ignore the precisely clear ones stating "free, gift, faith, and not of yourselves "!

Is that not perfectly clear or is it just me..."NOT OF YOURSELVES"!!!! Wow! if God could just make it more clear for us!

God Bless!