You understand much wopik in this discussion we are having. Where are you picking-up Paul adheres to the Sabbath? Galatians 4:11 leads us to believe otherwise, for Paul is baffled (do they understand about Grace) by the Galatians for they still wish observe days, times, months, and years. Christian faith, ituttut
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christmas has NOTHING to do with the Jesus of the Bible
- Thread starter wopik
- Start date
Merry Christmas, and Happy Holidays. Santa Clause is coming to town.Originally posted by Me4Him:
"CHRIST"-mas" is not about a "HOLIDAY",
But a "PERSON", "JESUS "CHRIST".
For those wishing me a "Happy Holiday",
I'd prefer you didn't "OFFEND ME" by leaving "CHRIST" out of "CHRIST"mas".
Originally posted by PeterMeansRock:
The church of works did not have a fixed date, so it established one. The Idol worshippers, said we’ll join with you on the condition that you join with us as we worship our gods. You scratch my back, and I’ll scratch yours. Believing in our paganism, we’ll be baptized into your church, and you observe our Holy Days. Your God won’t mind when you tell Him you are doing it to worship and praise Him, because you are adding so many to your church down here. He’ll understand for it’s the thought that counts. You know He doesn’t care what day the Word became flesh, and He didn’t really mean He would be in the earth three full days, and three full nights.The Church didn't have a fixed date, so it established one which would prevent luke-warm converts to the faith from praciticing their old faith on top of their Christian faith. They couldn't be in two temples at once, so you either celebrated Christmas or Saturnalia. THAT is why DEC 25th is the day we celebrate the Mass of Christ.
What words do we have for someone telling us “Happy Birthday” on a day that is not our “Birthday”. Our words are, “sorry you have the wrong guy”. I don’t know you and you don’t know me. Christian faith, ituttut
Hello Christian friend. When is Your birthday? Christian faith, ituttutOriginally posted by Pastor Larry:
Why does this nonsense keep getting spouted year after year? Don't you guys do any study? Any thinking on teh word? Being saturated with the Scriptures and the glory of Christ will prevent this nonsense about not celebrating Christ's birth from coming up.
QUOTE]Originally posted by NarnianSoldier:
if "all things are lawful" (1 Corinthians 6:12), then is celebrating this momentous occasion prohibited? [/QUOTE]
"All things are lawful unto me, but all things are not expedient: all things are lawful for me, but I will not be brought under the power of any.
The Catholic church is a powerful church for all her departed children still mind their "mommy".
If Christians are going to have a "Holy Day" of gift giving then just call it the "gift giving season" for it is much better to give than receive. Then give to the poor, the downtrodden, the orphans, the homeless, and give out the Pure Word of God to the Lost.
We only fool ourselves, when we think it is just fine to "add to the Word of God". Christian faith.
if "all things are lawful" (1 Corinthians 6:12), then is celebrating this momentous occasion prohibited? [/QUOTE]
"All things are lawful unto me, but all things are not expedient: all things are lawful for me, but I will not be brought under the power of any.
The Catholic church is a powerful church for all her departed children still mind their "mommy".
If Christians are going to have a "Holy Day" of gift giving then just call it the "gift giving season" for it is much better to give than receive. Then give to the poor, the downtrodden, the orphans, the homeless, and give out the Pure Word of God to the Lost.
We only fool ourselves, when we think it is just fine to "add to the Word of God". Christian faith.
Words of wisdom. Christian faith, ituttutOriginally posted by Eliyahu:
These days non-Christians are more joyful over X-mas than the true believers!
Are Peter, Paul miserable because they seem not to have celebrated Christmas?
Christmas is from Pagan religion, I have no doubt
intuttut
The Gentiles wanted Paul to speak to them the next Sabbath Day (acts 13:42).
And the next Sabbath Day, almost the whole city came to hear Paul preach the word of God (acts 13:44.
When a governor pardons some one from death row, to me that is what GRACE is -- unmerited pardon.
That doesn't do away with laws. That person who was pardoned by the governor better not commit any more crimes or he will be back in jail again.
Didn't Paul just get finished speaking to the Jews in the synogogue - preaching God and Jesus to them - on the Sabbath Day, "and when the congregation was broken up.....Paul persuaded them to continue in the GRACE of God" (acts 13:42-43.Where are you picking-up Paul adheres to the Sabbath? Galatians 4:11 leads us to believe otherwise, for Paul is baffled (do they understand about Grace) by the Galatians for they still wish observe days, times, months, and years. Christian faith, ituttut
The Gentiles wanted Paul to speak to them the next Sabbath Day (acts 13:42).
And the next Sabbath Day, almost the whole city came to hear Paul preach the word of God (acts 13:44.
When a governor pardons some one from death row, to me that is what GRACE is -- unmerited pardon.
That doesn't do away with laws. That person who was pardoned by the governor better not commit any more crimes or he will be back in jail again.
The reference to "days, and months, and seasons, and years" in Galatians 4:10 is frequently applied to the Jewish Sabbath and holy day observance.
To assume this, is not to rely on the evidence. Why does Paul speak of their "turning back" to the "weak and miserable stoicheia or elements" (v. 9)?
These Galatians do not seem to be former Jews, since they are receiving circumcision— something Jews would already have. One would assume they are going back to their former pagan conditions.
Further evidence is found in the vocabulary here. Why would one speak of "days" (hemerai), "months" (menai), "seasons" (kairoi) and "years" (eniautoi), if one had the Old Testament festivals in mind?
One would expect to see "Sabbath," "festival days" (heorte), or similar words but not vague references to "days" and problematic and unspecified comments about "seasons" and "years."
It is strange that Paul manages not to use a single normal word for the weekly or annual celebrations, if that is what he had in mind. We can only conclude that the passage cannot legitimately be used as evidence of Sabbath abolition.
Indeed, in the Gentile world, up to one third of the days of the year were special in one way or another, with certain restrictions, etc. In addition, certain months were considered sacred. The Jews never observed any months.
http://intercontinentalcog.org/ICGCC/Lesson_Seven.shtml
To assume this, is not to rely on the evidence. Why does Paul speak of their "turning back" to the "weak and miserable stoicheia or elements" (v. 9)?
These Galatians do not seem to be former Jews, since they are receiving circumcision— something Jews would already have. One would assume they are going back to their former pagan conditions.
Further evidence is found in the vocabulary here. Why would one speak of "days" (hemerai), "months" (menai), "seasons" (kairoi) and "years" (eniautoi), if one had the Old Testament festivals in mind?
One would expect to see "Sabbath," "festival days" (heorte), or similar words but not vague references to "days" and problematic and unspecified comments about "seasons" and "years."
It is strange that Paul manages not to use a single normal word for the weekly or annual celebrations, if that is what he had in mind. We can only conclude that the passage cannot legitimately be used as evidence of Sabbath abolition.
Indeed, in the Gentile world, up to one third of the days of the year were special in one way or another, with certain restrictions, etc. In addition, certain months were considered sacred. The Jews never observed any months.
http://intercontinentalcog.org/ICGCC/Lesson_Seven.shtml
Didn't Paul just get finished speaking to the Jews in the synogogue - preaching God and Jesus to them - on the Sabbath Day, "and when the congregation was broken up.....Paul persuaded them to continue in the GRACE of God" (acts 13:42-43.Originally posted by wopik:
intuttut
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Where are you picking-up Paul adheres to the Sabbath? Galatians 4:11 leads us to believe otherwise, for Paul is baffled (do they understand about Grace) by the Galatians for they still wish observe days, times, months, and years. Christian faith, ituttut
The Gentiles wanted Paul to speak to them the next Sabbath Day (acts 13:42).
And the next Sabbath Day, almost the whole city came to hear Paul preach the word of God (acts 13:44.
When a governor pardons some one from death row, to me that is what GRACE is -- unmerited pardon.
That doesn't do away with laws. That person who was pardoned by the governor better not commit any more crimes or he will be back in jail again. </font>[/QUOTE]Where else would Paul go to preach to his brethren. Paul has the authority to preach to the Jew also, not just to the Gentile. The Christian church has just gotten started, and at this time Christian’s meet in homes. They did not go to synagogues or the Temple for they were not allowed in the Temple. Paul went to where the lost of Israel went every Sabbath. He is preaching the gospel of the Cross of Jesus to his people, preaching the Christian message of grace through faith, without any works.
Paul preached on the Jewish Sabbath Day, on Sunday, Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday, and Friday.
”But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter,” Romans 7:6. Jesus said the Law and the Prophets were preached until John the Baptist. Today it is by grace that we are saved Through the faith of Jesus Christ. We are not under the curse of the law, for we have been made righteous in Him.
Gotta get to bed. Talk later. Christian faith, ituttut
Hi intuttut,
Paul served the law of God (Romans 7:25).
But there were also Christians in the synagogues on the Sabbath day. Paul was headed to Damasus, to the synagogues in Damascus, in hopes of finding Christians there -- in the synagogues on the Sabbath day:
Meanwhile Saul, still
breathing threats
and murder against
the disciples of the Lord,
went to the high priest
and requested letters
from him to the synagogues in Damascus,
so that if he found any
who belonged to the Way,
either men or women,
he might bring them
as prisoners to Jerusalem (acts 9:1-2, Holman Christian Standard Bible).
the law is not a curse. Paul called the law, holy, just and good (Romans 7:12).We are not under the curse of the law
Paul served the law of God (Romans 7:25).
yes, some Christians did meet in their private homes (Rom. 16:5).The Christian church has just gotten started, and at this time Christian’s meet in homes. They did not go to synagogues......
But there were also Christians in the synagogues on the Sabbath day. Paul was headed to Damasus, to the synagogues in Damascus, in hopes of finding Christians there -- in the synagogues on the Sabbath day:
Meanwhile Saul, still
breathing threats
and murder against
the disciples of the Lord,
went to the high priest
and requested letters
from him to the synagogues in Damascus,
so that if he found any
who belonged to the Way,
either men or women,
he might bring them
as prisoners to Jerusalem (acts 9:1-2, Holman Christian Standard Bible).
the law is not a curse. Paul called the law, holy, just and good (Romans 7:12).Originally posted by wopik:
Hi intuttut,
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />We are not under the curse of the law
Paul served the law of God (Romans 7:25).
Hello wopik. The law is holy, just and good, but we are not. We are in the Body of
Christ through faith, and not the law for we can never be justified by the law. It is Christ that is righteous, and we in Him are made righteous.
Galatians 3:10-14, ”For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them. 11. But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is evident: for, The just shall live by faith. 12. And the law is not of faith: but, the man that doeth them shall live in them. 13. Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree: 14. That the blessing of Abraham might come on the Gentiles through Jesus Christ; that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith."
We today are OSAS as in the Spirit we serve the law of God, but as long as we are in these bodies, we remain in sin as that is our nature we acquired from Adam, and Eve.
yes, some Christians did meet in their private homes (Rom. 16:5).The Christian church has just gotten started, and at this time Christian’s meet in homes. They did not go to synagogues......
But there were also Christians in the synagogues on the Sabbath day. Paul was headed to Damasus, to the synagogues in Damascus, in hopes of finding Christians there -- in the synagogues on the Sabbath day:
Meanwhile Saul, still
breathing threats
and murder against
the disciples of the Lord,
went to the high priest
and requested letters
from him to the synagogues in Damascus,
so that if he found any
who belonged to the Way,
either men or women,
he might bring them
as prisoners to Jerusalem (acts 9:1-2, Holman Christian Standard Bible). </font>[/QUOTE]Saul was rounding up those of Israel. Saul was a Pharisee and would not have any thing to do with a Gentile dog. This is how the children of God viewed the heathen. Matthew 15:22-28 shows Jesus was not interested in any but His own, and the Apostles were no different. Jesus, or His Apostles, never approached a Gentile as to salvation, and had no desire to be associated with them in any way.
The first scattering of those of the Pentecostal church was done by none other than Saul/Paul. He was the instigator at the stoning of Stephen, and he didn’t let up of rounding up the Jew (that accepted the imposter Jesus called the King of the Jews) for jailing or death. Paul had papers in hand from the house of Israel, the Sanhedrin; to now go get the Jew’s in towns of the Gentile’s. Paul, of course with help had forced (the Apostle’s were hid and never left Jerusalem for a good number of years) most of the Pentecostal church out of Jerusalem, and Israel. Saul was out to destroy those Jew’s that worshipped a “false god”. Paul knew no Gentile would ever be allowed into the Temple of God, so Paul was not concerned with the “dogs”.
We find that no Gentile had been preached to or at (proselytes yes), in that day, and not for a number of years afterwards as witnessed in Acts 9 (Paul is to go to the Gentile); then in Acts 10 God forces Peter to preach to the first Gentile, verse 28, and when we read carefully verses 43 and 44, we see for the first time the way the heathen are saved. After this one time of preaching to a Gentile, scripture indicates Peter never preached to another Gentile, and neither did any of the other Apostles, James included, as long as the Temple and Jerusalem stood. Christian faith, ituttut
Natalis Invicti. The well-known solar feast, however, of Natalis Invicti, celebrated on 25 December, has a strong claim on the responsibility for our December date. For the history of the solar cult, its position in the Roman Empire, and syncretism with Mithraism, see Cumont's epoch-making "Textes et Monuments" etc., I, ii, 4, 6, p. 355. Mommsen (Corpus Inscriptionum Latinarum, 12, p. 338) has collected the evidence for the feast, which reached its climax of popularity under Aurelian in 274.
http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/03724b.htm
2. Easter Eggs
Because the use of eggs was forbidden during Lent, they were brought to the table on Easter Day, coloured red to symbolize the Easter joy. This custom is found not only in the Latin but also in the Oriental Churches. The symbolic meaning of a new creation of mankind by Jesus risen from the dead was probably an invention of later times. The custom may have its origin in paganism, for a great many pagan customs, celebrating the return of spring, gravitated to Easter. -- Ez. 8:16-17
http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/05224d.htm
http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/03724b.htm
2. Easter Eggs
Because the use of eggs was forbidden during Lent, they were brought to the table on Easter Day, coloured red to symbolize the Easter joy. This custom is found not only in the Latin but also in the Oriental Churches. The symbolic meaning of a new creation of mankind by Jesus risen from the dead was probably an invention of later times. The custom may have its origin in paganism, for a great many pagan customs, celebrating the return of spring, gravitated to Easter. -- Ez. 8:16-17
http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/05224d.htm