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Christmas Hypocrites
- Thread starter Eladar
- Start date
OK, but Granny seems as though she has an "itch" that needs to be scratched.
Granny, maybe you should do some more research! You may be surprised what you may find. I know that I found a lot about Baptists and Catholics....now I'm finding out how they feel about Christmas. (just so we can keep on topic )
MEE
GrannyGumbo
<img src ="/Granny.gif">
MEE~I have done the research and I was surprised at what I found! Having been raised in an era where "santee" claus, the easter bunny, the tooth fairy and anything else that was make-believe was just part of "growing up", I was simply amazed when I learned the truth & how we've been duped.
I think satan has kept this secret hidden away all these years or in the false religions(JW's, etc), but with the onset of the www, knowledge is abounding...
I've since run into Baptist folks who've never taken part in this celebration. Look in some of your older encyclopedias. [I checked the 1946 edition of the Britannica]. God says to learn not the way of the heathen.
Why can't the "good will" continue all year long? Why is it so rampant during this season? It's fake-otherwise, people would continue to "give" & continue to come to church. Look at the expense & how it's growing! Why are all of "santa/satan's" attributes identical to Jesus's?
There is no Biblical authority for its celebration or for observing the birth of Christ. [And yes, I do believe in the virgin birth].
The last television movie I watched about Christmas/Santa was shocking; it was actually a mockery of Jesus! This is our 4th year to be free from all the hoopla & it is wonderful! It takes guts and we have lost many 'friends' and some family over this.
"Now therefore fear the LORD, and serve him in sincerity and in truth: and put away the gods which your fathers served on the other side of the flood, and in Egypt; and serve ye the LORD".
I think satan has kept this secret hidden away all these years or in the false religions(JW's, etc), but with the onset of the www, knowledge is abounding...
I've since run into Baptist folks who've never taken part in this celebration. Look in some of your older encyclopedias. [I checked the 1946 edition of the Britannica]. God says to learn not the way of the heathen.
Why can't the "good will" continue all year long? Why is it so rampant during this season? It's fake-otherwise, people would continue to "give" & continue to come to church. Look at the expense & how it's growing! Why are all of "santa/satan's" attributes identical to Jesus's?
There is no Biblical authority for its celebration or for observing the birth of Christ. [And yes, I do believe in the virgin birth].
The last television movie I watched about Christmas/Santa was shocking; it was actually a mockery of Jesus! This is our 4th year to be free from all the hoopla & it is wonderful! It takes guts and we have lost many 'friends' and some family over this.
"Now therefore fear the LORD, and serve him in sincerity and in truth: and put away the gods which your fathers served on the other side of the flood, and in Egypt; and serve ye the LORD".
DHK,
Twice in this thread already you have stated that to those who do not believe in celebrating Christmas in one way or another affects their salvation.
If I did, that is not what I meant to say. What I meant to say is that if someone is willing to crush a young child's joy, then I believe someone must be doing it for a good reason. An older child would do this just for fun, but I hope adults who do this aren't just sadistic. I hope an adult who would do this actually believed it was a salvation issue.
I agree, this is not a salvation issue, just as eating meat offered to idols was not a salvation issue for those who knew that idols did not exist and they were just eating meat.
To some people here the celebration of Christ's birth on Dec. 25 is sinful, especially with all the worldy trappings and the pagan custom roots from which it comes, and pagan customs to which it still adheres.
This is why I call those who want to celebrate Christmas, but don't want Santa are hypocrites. It is a pagan holiday given a 'Christian' look.
"Mass" literally means "death." What is so joyful and blessed about death? These things require at least some contemplation by those intending to celebrate Christmas. To those who already, for reasons given above, decide not to celebrate the occasion, do not say that it is a salvational issue. It is not.
If it is not a salvation issue, then why fight about it. Why crush a young child's fun and put a bad light on the child's parents by revealing that Santa does not exist?
Nimrod,
ChristMASS is a celebration of Christ in the MASS. The MASS is blasphemy against GOD.
No, Christmas is a time to decorate and give presents and spend time with loved ones. I look at Christmas in the same light as the 4th of July. It is a secular holiday, just like Mother's day, Father's day, Labor Day, and every other secular holiday.
Twice in this thread already you have stated that to those who do not believe in celebrating Christmas in one way or another affects their salvation.
If I did, that is not what I meant to say. What I meant to say is that if someone is willing to crush a young child's joy, then I believe someone must be doing it for a good reason. An older child would do this just for fun, but I hope adults who do this aren't just sadistic. I hope an adult who would do this actually believed it was a salvation issue.
I agree, this is not a salvation issue, just as eating meat offered to idols was not a salvation issue for those who knew that idols did not exist and they were just eating meat.
To some people here the celebration of Christ's birth on Dec. 25 is sinful, especially with all the worldy trappings and the pagan custom roots from which it comes, and pagan customs to which it still adheres.
This is why I call those who want to celebrate Christmas, but don't want Santa are hypocrites. It is a pagan holiday given a 'Christian' look.
"Mass" literally means "death." What is so joyful and blessed about death? These things require at least some contemplation by those intending to celebrate Christmas. To those who already, for reasons given above, decide not to celebrate the occasion, do not say that it is a salvational issue. It is not.
If it is not a salvation issue, then why fight about it. Why crush a young child's fun and put a bad light on the child's parents by revealing that Santa does not exist?
Nimrod,
ChristMASS is a celebration of Christ in the MASS. The MASS is blasphemy against GOD.
No, Christmas is a time to decorate and give presents and spend time with loved ones. I look at Christmas in the same light as the 4th of July. It is a secular holiday, just like Mother's day, Father's day, Labor Day, and every other secular holiday.
ChristMASS is a celebration of Christ in the MASS. The MASS is blasphemy against GOD.
Then call it ChristService, if that's your beef. But your beef is not with the word "Mass" it's an attempt to use the word to spread your AntiCatholic rhetoric.
On people B-day's, Thanksgiving and the July 4th. All three are not holy days for the LORD. They are just celebrations, no "will-worship" to God for them.
Are you sure you're not a Jehovah's witness?
Then call it ChristService, if that's your beef. But your beef is not with the word "Mass" it's an attempt to use the word to spread your AntiCatholic rhetoric.
On people B-day's, Thanksgiving and the July 4th. All three are not holy days for the LORD. They are just celebrations, no "will-worship" to God for them.
Are you sure you're not a Jehovah's witness?
Originally posted by GrannyGumbo:
[QB]MEE~I have done the research and I was surprised at what I found! Having been raised in an era where "santee" claus, the easter bunny, the tooth fairy and anything else that was make-believe was just part of "growing up", I was simply amazed when I learned the truth & how we've been duped....
**Oh, I know what you are talking about now. Thanks for explaining!
Let me ask you a question! How old were you when you found out that this was just fun things for children? Also, I hope it didn't hurt you in any way. I find when children do begin to understand that Santa and other make believe fun things are only for children that they do accept it and just go on and grow up. Know what I mean?
I wouldn't trade the fun times that I had with my two sisters, at Christmas and other holidays, for anything. Those memories mean the world to me. I wish I could go back and know what I know now. It would be even more wonderful.
I say let children have some fun while they can. This world is hard enough to live in without taking the fun out of childhood.
Just my .02 cents worth,
MEE
GrannyGumbo
<img src ="/Granny.gif">
MEE~I would rather my folks had been honest with me, so in turn, I could have been honest with my own children(tho'I didn't carry it to the extreme that my parents did). The Bible has a little something to say about all liars, eh?
I had plenty of imagination making playhouses & building forts out of pinestraw, etc. There's much fun to being a child, even a grown-up child, without lying.
In order to be an effective witness to the world, one should not compromise with the world.
I had plenty of imagination making playhouses & building forts out of pinestraw, etc. There's much fun to being a child, even a grown-up child, without lying.
In order to be an effective witness to the world, one should not compromise with the world.
Myself, I was CRUSHED when I found out Mom & Dad lied to me about Santa Clause. I remember it vividly.
Originally posted by GrannyGumbo:
[QB]MEE~I would rather my folks had been honest with me, so in turn, I could have been honest with my own children(tho'I didn't carry it to the extreme that my parents did). The Bible has a little something to say about all liars, eh?
I had plenty of imagination making playhouses & building forts out of pinestraw, etc. There's much fun to being a child, even a grown-up child, without lying.
**Do I still detect an "itch" or is it just an "undercurrent?"
Granny, what would you say to a person if they wished you a "Merry Christmas?"
MEE
GrannyGumbo
<img src ="/Granny.gif">
MEE~I'm sorry, but I don't understand what you're talking about; perhaps it's just an "itchy undercurrent"?
On the rare occasions I do go out & if someone who doesn't know me wishes me a "merry christmas", I smile as big and gracious as I can & say, "well, you have a nice day, now, ya hear." Or something to that affect.
On the rare occasions I do go out & if someone who doesn't know me wishes me a "merry christmas", I smile as big and gracious as I can & say, "well, you have a nice day, now, ya hear." Or something to that affect.
CatholicConvert
New Member
I thought I recognized this guy! Rick Miesel, aka "Baptist Coward" refuses to engage in any substantive discussion of his Calvinist heresies. His response to my questions of his position: "I have better things to do than waste my time on apostates like you."
Well, same to you, sir.
At least the Baptists on this board have the CLASS to engage in discussion and defend their position.
Of course, his whole screed against Christmas goes right down the drain when you consider that he himself follows teachings and ceremonies which are not found in Scripture.
There is no distinct teaching of the Blessed Trinity, and in fact, the teaching of "triadic godheads" was found in paganism long before the Nicene Council set the imprimature of the Church on it as being orthodoxy.
Likewise, there have been "crucified saviors" in paganism LONG BEFORE our Lord came and gave us the real deal. Perhaps Mr. Miesel should dump his belief in a crucified and risen savior since this comes from a paganism which long predates Christianity.
Brother Ed
Well, same to you, sir.
At least the Baptists on this board have the CLASS to engage in discussion and defend their position.
Of course, his whole screed against Christmas goes right down the drain when you consider that he himself follows teachings and ceremonies which are not found in Scripture.
There is no distinct teaching of the Blessed Trinity, and in fact, the teaching of "triadic godheads" was found in paganism long before the Nicene Council set the imprimature of the Church on it as being orthodoxy.
Likewise, there have been "crucified saviors" in paganism LONG BEFORE our Lord came and gave us the real deal. Perhaps Mr. Miesel should dump his belief in a crucified and risen savior since this comes from a paganism which long predates Christianity.
Brother Ed
CatholicConvert
New Member
DHK --
Once again we catch you making up definitions of Catholicism which are completely untrue.
For the proper definition of the meaning of the word "Mass" (from the Latin "missa"), please go to the Catholic Encylopedia and read the following:
The Liturgy of the Mass
You will note that there is NOTHING in there which even remotely suggests that the word Mass means death.
Shame on ya, DHK.
Brother Ed
Once again we catch you making up definitions of Catholicism which are completely untrue.
For the proper definition of the meaning of the word "Mass" (from the Latin "missa"), please go to the Catholic Encylopedia and read the following:
The Liturgy of the Mass
You will note that there is NOTHING in there which even remotely suggests that the word Mass means death.
Shame on ya, DHK.
Brother Ed
You will note that there is more information than just the sanatized RC sites that you referred to:
The True Meaning of Christ-Mass
DHK
CatholicConvert
New Member
DHK --
You have done this over and over and over again. A slanderous, bigoted, anti-catholic flame site on the Internet is NOT an official definition of the Mass. That is like my going around saying that Baptists are people who teach that baptism saves, seals, and makes you fit for heaven regardless of how wickedly you act after you are baptized.
Why don't you knock off the slander and deal with the OFFICIAL terminology found in the Catholic Encyclopedia rather than some scurrilous piece of doggerel?
Brother Ed
In essence, the Mass is the ceremonial slaying of Jesus Christ over and over again, followed by the eating of his flesh and the drinking of his blood.
How many different ways can you say incorrect? (edited to remove a word not particulary fitting to a gentlemanly discussion,,thank you)
[ December 14, 2002, 11:10 PM: Message edited by: Jim1999 ]
You have done this over and over and over again. A slanderous, bigoted, anti-catholic flame site on the Internet is NOT an official definition of the Mass. That is like my going around saying that Baptists are people who teach that baptism saves, seals, and makes you fit for heaven regardless of how wickedly you act after you are baptized.
Why don't you knock off the slander and deal with the OFFICIAL terminology found in the Catholic Encyclopedia rather than some scurrilous piece of doggerel?
Brother Ed
In essence, the Mass is the ceremonial slaying of Jesus Christ over and over again, followed by the eating of his flesh and the drinking of his blood.
How many different ways can you say incorrect? (edited to remove a word not particulary fitting to a gentlemanly discussion,,thank you)
[ December 14, 2002, 11:10 PM: Message edited by: Jim1999 ]
CatholicConvert
New Member
Tuor --
You know, I was thinking a bit about your initial post and the responses to it.
The Church is a family. We have God as our Father. We have the Blessed Virgin as our Mother. We have Jesus as our Elder Brother. And we have all kinds of brothers and sisters whom we have never met, but who really and truly are members of this one family.
Now in an earthly family, we get together from time to time to celebrate events in the lives of our loved ones. Perhaps the most common way of celebrating is that we share a meal together. It is a time of fellowship, of recounting the many good things and life of the one in whose honor we meet, and of being with those whom we love.
Well, sir, this is exactly what happens in the Church. I can only speak to the Eastern Rite, but I will say that we have a great number of Liturgies throughout the year in honor of the lives of those various brothers and sisters who preceded us. We celebrate their lives, their victories over sin and death, and even their brave martyrdoms. And we do this by having the meal which our Lord has commanded us to have -- the Eucharist.
Ray Sutton (as I have said -- NOT a Catholic) describes the Lord's Supper (his wording) as the "covenant meal par excellance". It is the time when we renew the covenant of God with Him through Christ. In it, our sins are cleansed, we renew our fellowship with Him, refresh our state of grace, and enter into the "one flesh" relationship with Christ which He has with His Bride.
The establishing of the birth of Christ on December 25th is admittedly without narrative to support such a date, however, the coming of Christ into the world took all that belonged to the rulership of the wicked one and made it Christ's. How fitting then that the Winter solstice, in which the pagans celebrated the end of the dark winter days and the coming of light again, should be replaced and overshadowed by the coming of the One Who is the True Light of the world!! How few people celebrate or remember the solstice, but how many celebrate and remember Christmas.
Incidentally, in the Eastern Church, Christmas was not considered as important a celebration as Theophany, which is celebrated on Jan. 6th of each year. This is the celebration of Christ's baptism, also called "the Sunday of Orthodoxy", for it is in His baptism that we see the orthodox formula of the Trinity most clearly expounded in Scripture: God the Father speaks from Heaven, God the Holy Spirit descends, and God the Son is identified as the Son of God by name by the declaration of the Father.
Brother Ed
You know, I was thinking a bit about your initial post and the responses to it.
The Church is a family. We have God as our Father. We have the Blessed Virgin as our Mother. We have Jesus as our Elder Brother. And we have all kinds of brothers and sisters whom we have never met, but who really and truly are members of this one family.
Now in an earthly family, we get together from time to time to celebrate events in the lives of our loved ones. Perhaps the most common way of celebrating is that we share a meal together. It is a time of fellowship, of recounting the many good things and life of the one in whose honor we meet, and of being with those whom we love.
Well, sir, this is exactly what happens in the Church. I can only speak to the Eastern Rite, but I will say that we have a great number of Liturgies throughout the year in honor of the lives of those various brothers and sisters who preceded us. We celebrate their lives, their victories over sin and death, and even their brave martyrdoms. And we do this by having the meal which our Lord has commanded us to have -- the Eucharist.
Ray Sutton (as I have said -- NOT a Catholic) describes the Lord's Supper (his wording) as the "covenant meal par excellance". It is the time when we renew the covenant of God with Him through Christ. In it, our sins are cleansed, we renew our fellowship with Him, refresh our state of grace, and enter into the "one flesh" relationship with Christ which He has with His Bride.
The establishing of the birth of Christ on December 25th is admittedly without narrative to support such a date, however, the coming of Christ into the world took all that belonged to the rulership of the wicked one and made it Christ's. How fitting then that the Winter solstice, in which the pagans celebrated the end of the dark winter days and the coming of light again, should be replaced and overshadowed by the coming of the One Who is the True Light of the world!! How few people celebrate or remember the solstice, but how many celebrate and remember Christmas.
Incidentally, in the Eastern Church, Christmas was not considered as important a celebration as Theophany, which is celebrated on Jan. 6th of each year. This is the celebration of Christ's baptism, also called "the Sunday of Orthodoxy", for it is in His baptism that we see the orthodox formula of the Trinity most clearly expounded in Scripture: God the Father speaks from Heaven, God the Holy Spirit descends, and God the Son is identified as the Son of God by name by the declaration of the Father.
Brother Ed
Let's keep away from the inflammatory language.
First, I thought the article was well-balanced instead of the normal Catholic drivel that pours forth at a regular pace in defence of Catholic pagan customs in relation to "Christmas."
Second, he does use both secular and Catholic references. What is so inflammatory about this:
Here let it be noted that most people think that the word, "Christmas" means "the birth of Christ." By definition, it means "death of Christ", and I will prove it by using the World Book Encyclopedia, the Catholic Encyclopedia, and a book entitled, The Mass In Slow Motion.
That was his thesis, if you will. That is what he set out to prove. And as he says: by using both the World Book Encyclopedia and the Catholic Encyclopedia. Now, if he did that, there can't be much wrong with the article can there?
Enough of the Catholic ranting and rhetoric, eh?
DHK
[ December 14, 2002, 11:14 PM: Message edited by: Jim1999 ]
Carson Weber
<img src="http://www.boerne.com/temp/bb_pic2.jpg">
Hi DHK,
Mind if I chime in?
The very word Christmas, a Catholic word, means Christ's mass, the celebration of the mass of Christ on Christmas day.
So far, you're correct.
Merry Christmas means "happy or joyful" death. "Mass" literally means "death."
You are incorrect (This seems to be a reoccuring theme in your posts).
The term "Mass" comes from the final words of the divine liturgy according to the Latin text of the 1970 Missal, which was promulgated on March 26th of that year. These words are "Ite, missa est."
This translates in English to "Go, it is the dismissal." The reason that this line originally found its way into the end of the Roman missal is that celebrants would remain after the liturgy for continued prayers or chants, and so this line signified that the liturgy is finished for the day.
Enlightening the darkened intellect,
yours in Christ, I am,
Carson
Mind if I chime in?
The very word Christmas, a Catholic word, means Christ's mass, the celebration of the mass of Christ on Christmas day.
So far, you're correct.
Merry Christmas means "happy or joyful" death. "Mass" literally means "death."
You are incorrect (This seems to be a reoccuring theme in your posts).
The term "Mass" comes from the final words of the divine liturgy according to the Latin text of the 1970 Missal, which was promulgated on March 26th of that year. These words are "Ite, missa est."
This translates in English to "Go, it is the dismissal." The reason that this line originally found its way into the end of the Roman missal is that celebrants would remain after the liturgy for continued prayers or chants, and so this line signified that the liturgy is finished for the day.
Enlightening the darkened intellect,
yours in Christ, I am,
Carson
CatholicConvert
New Member
Nice try Carson.
I gave him that information. Straight from the Catholic Encyclopedia online.
He doesn't care.
And it is inflammatory to take a person's words and twist them around to mean something which they do not mean, DHK.
Brother Ed
I gave him that information. Straight from the Catholic Encyclopedia online.
He doesn't care.
And it is inflammatory to take a person's words and twist them around to mean something which they do not mean, DHK.
Brother Ed