Christmas Tree

[Amy.G]

(BTW in America God lives in a building. We call it "God's House" ......

God does not live in a house or any other building. He lives in us.


John 4:20-21 Our fathers worshiped in this mountain; and you say, that in Jerusalem is the place where men ought to worship. Jesus said unto her, Woman, believe me, the hour comes, when you shall neither in this mountain, nor yet at Jerusalem, worship the Father.
John 4:23 But the hour comes, and now is, when the true worshipers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeks such to worship him.

 

[Dr. Bob]

Ah, yes. We all know that.

Whoosh

 

[tinytim]

God does not live in a house or any other building. He lives in us.


John 4:20-21 Our fathers worshiped in this mountain; and you say, that in Jerusalem is the place where men ought to worship. Jesus said unto her, Woman, believe me, the hour comes, when you shall neither in this mountain, nor yet at Jerusalem, worship the Father.
John 4:23 But the hour comes, and now is, when the true worshipers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeks such to worship him.

Dr Bob was being sarcastic.. LOL..

 

[go2church]

We have two huge trees and used them in our hanging of the green service. We also have a dedicated Chrismon tree out in the foyer, both are just beautiful glad we have them.

 

[Amy.G]

Dr Bob was being sarcastic.. LOL..

Oops.

My bad. I think I'm in defense mode after debating Luke for several days. :laugh:

 

[annsni]

Got a few pictures of our Christmas tree at church with some of our church staff around it after we decorated it and were singing some carols together.

Here's also some other pictures I took of the sanctuary. It's a mess right now because we're also working on the set for the play on Sunday night.

http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e110/annsni/church/IMG_0822.jpg

http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e110/annsni/church/IMG_0823.jpg

http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e110/annsni/church/IMG_0824.jpg

http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e110/annsni/church/IMG_0831.jpg

http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e110/annsni/church/IMG_0830.jpg

http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e110/annsni/church/IMG_0829.jpg

http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e110/annsni/church/IMG_0825.jpg

 

[Amy.G]

Very pretty! :thumbs:

 

[Steadfast Fred]

Jeremiah 10:2-4 Thus saith the LORD, Learn not the way of the heathen, and be not dismayed at the signs of heaven; for the heathen are dismayed at them. For the customs of the people are vain: for one cutteth a tree out of the forest, the work of the hands of the workman, with the axe. They deck it with silver and with gold; they fasten it with nails and with hammers, that it move not.

The tree mentioned in the passage above may not be a Christmas tree, but the simiarities are uncanny.

1. The heathen go out and cut the tree down (Many today cut trees down)
2. The heathen take the trees inside their house (Many today do the same)
3. The heathen fasten the tree with nails so it does not fall down (Many today use a 'tree stand')
4. The heathen decorate the tree with silver and gold (Many today put silver and gold tinsel and garland on trees)

While Scripture says this practice is vain, and that it is not in them to do either harm or good, it does say we are not to learn the ways of the heathen.

For this cause, I am against putting trees in the house or the Church and decorating them. It is mimicing the pagans of Jeremiah's day.

 

[Crabtownboy]

So a debate has broken out in my church about a Christmas tree being put up in the Sanctuary during a hanging of the greens service. So bring a young pastor up to speed. Is this wrong and why?

To me it is rather like the debate about eating meat that had been offered before idols in Paul's writings. If you feel it is wrong, then it is wrong for you. If you feel it is not wrong, then for you it is not wrong.

There are Baptist in Eastern Europe who will not allow Easter eggs as they history can be traced back to fertility rites in the spring in ancient pagan religions.

Pre-Christian Eggs:

Mary Magdalene and the red eggs aren't the earliest examples of eggs as a spring symbol. In Persia, eggs have been painted for thousands of years as part of the spring celebration of No Ruz, which is the Zoroastrian new year. In Iran, the colored eggs are placed on the dinner table at No Ruz, and a mother eats one cooked egg for each child she has. The festival of No Ruz predates the reign of Cyrus the Great, whose rule (580-529 b.c.e.) markes the beginning of Persian history.
http://www.google.cz/search?client=...ce=hp&q="easter+egg"+pagan&btnG=Google+Search

Hot Cross Buns, served on Good Friday, date back to Chaldean rites.

It would seem that much that is done is such regards is not Christian in origin. So each must decide for him/herself.

 

[annsni]

Jeremiah 10:2-4 Thus saith the LORD, Learn not the way of the heathen, and be not dismayed at the signs of heaven; for the heathen are dismayed at them. For the customs of the people are vain: for one cutteth a tree out of the forest, the work of the hands of the workman, with the axe. They deck it with silver and with gold; they fasten it with nails and with hammers, that it move not.

The tree mentioned in the passage above may not be a Christmas tree, but the simiarities are uncanny.

1. The heathen go out and cut the tree down (Many today cut trees down)
2. The heathen take the trees inside their house (Many today do the same)
3. The heathen fasten the tree with nails so it does not fall down (Many today use a 'tree stand')
4. The heathen decorate the tree with silver and gold (Many today put silver and gold tinsel and garland on trees)

While Scripture says this practice is vain, and that it is not in them to do either harm or good, it does say we are not to learn the ways of the heathen.

For this cause, I am against putting trees in the house or the Church and decorating them. It is mimicing the pagans of Jeremiah's day.

You forgot a key part of the verse: " the work of the hands of the workman, with the axe"

No one takes an axe and crafts the tree. Clearly this is speaking of creating an idol out of a tree - not putting a tree in the house.

Our church does not see an issue with putting up a few of God's outdoor decorations to decorate the inside.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

Ann.... looks nice..... In a sea of Catholism & atheism in LI, I must complement you on your extraordinary efforts of you & your full family to bring the True Faith to the locals.

Merry Christmas to you & yours.

 

[Robert Snow]

Got a few pictures of our Christmas tree at church with some of our church staff around it after we decorated it and were singing some carols together.

Here's also some other pictures I took of the sanctuary. It's a mess right now because we're also working on the set for the play on Sunday night.

http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e110/annsni/church/IMG_0822.jpg

http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e110/annsni/church/IMG_0823.jpg

http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e110/annsni/church/IMG_0824.jpg

http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e110/annsni/church/IMG_0831.jpg

http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e110/annsni/church/IMG_0830.jpg

http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e110/annsni/church/IMG_0829.jpg

http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e110/annsni/church/IMG_0825.jpg

Wow! It looks like you all are singing to the tree. Idolatry! :tongue3:

Of course, I know this isn't true, it just looks that way with the still pictures with no sound.

BTW, I don't want trees, fountains or flags in the Sanctuary!

 

[annsni]

Ann.... looks nice..... In a sea of Catholism & atheism in LI, I must complement you on your extraordinary efforts of you & your full family to bring the True Faith to the locals.

Merry Christmas to you & yours.

Thank you.

I do have to say that our church is nice looking but as you can see in the sanctuary, very 80s. LOL

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

Well Im no interior decorator. It gets me that most of these prople complaining have no idea what it is like to try to have a deep relationship with God in the NY/ NJ/LI area......I do. I know your struggles because we go through them here in NJ as well. Most here are now either in a watered down church, a Mega Church complete smoke machines & Mirrors, Catholic Churches or what my brother-in law announced last year, that his family is now aethiests. Nobody cares what Freddy the Tea Todler Or Robby Snow do. Its an accomplishment to you & your family that youve progressed so far in such a short time.... Gods blessing is surely with you.

 

[annsni]

EWF - I might have confused you (I think) but the picture I showed is our home church and that church has been here for quite some time (I can't remember how long but Anne Graham Lotz' father in law was our second pastor so it's been like 70+ years, I think - our own pastor has been here since '68). We are starting a new church plant/campus and THAT looks quite different since we're meeting in a hotel.

To give some an idea of what we're dealing with here, we just called a woman who's been coming to our new church to invite her to the home church's Christmas play (it's a HUGE production - off Broadway quality) and we told her to invite her husband. She told us that she'll ask him but he's Catholic and won't set foot in a Baptist church. :BangHead: We told her to tell him it's not "church" but instead a catered dinner and a show. We'll see what he does. But Christmas trees are the least of our issues.

 

[Steadfast Fred]

You forgot a key part of the verse: " the work of the hands of the workman, with the axe"

No one takes an axe and crafts the tree. Clearly this is speaking of creating an idol out of a tree - not putting a tree in the house.

Our church does not see an issue with putting up a few of God's outdoor decorations to decorate the inside.

Jeremiah 10:2-4 Thus saith the LORD, Learn not the way of the heathen, and be not dismayed at the signs of heaven; for the heathen are dismayed at them. For the customs of the people are vain: for one cutteth a tree out of the forest, the work of the hands of the workman, with the axe. They deck it with silver and with gold; they fasten it with nails and with hammers, that it move not.

"the work of the hands of the workman, with the axe' How in the world do you think they cut the tree down? with their teeth? 'the work of the hands of the workman, with the axe' describes how the tree is cut down.

The graven images in Jeremiah 10 were of metal, not wood. The tree was used to put the molten images on, hence decking it with silver and gold.

Jeremiah 10:14 Every man is brutish in his knowledge: every founder is confounded by the graven image: for his molten image is falsehood, and there is no breath in them.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

Yes I understand. My mother, raising us kids as Catholic, absolutely refused to allow my father who was in the Army to take us into the West Point Chapel because she felt it was protestant.

Lets say you didnt have a Christmas Tree....Im certain you couldnt even get people to attend thinking you very strange for not having one. Such is the NE.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

Jeremiah 10:2-4 Thus saith the LORD, Learn not the way of the heathen, and be not dismayed at the signs of heaven; for the heathen are dismayed at them. For the customs of the people are vain: for one cutteth a tree out of the forest, the work of the hands of the workman, with the axe. They deck it with silver and with gold; they fasten it with nails and with hammers, that it move not.

"the work of the hands of the workman, with the axe' How in the world do you think they cut the tree down? with their teeth? 'the work of the hands of the workman, with the axe' describes how the tree is cut down.

Jeremiah 10 doesn't even mention idols in it. As a matter of fact, the word 'idol' is not mentioned in Jeremiah until the 22nd chapter. And the word 'idols,' not until the 50th.

I will drink to that!

Cheers

 

[annsni]

Jeremiah 10:2-4 Thus saith the LORD, Learn not the way of the heathen, and be not dismayed at the signs of heaven; for the heathen are dismayed at them. For the customs of the people are vain: for one cutteth a tree out of the forest, the work of the hands of the workman, with the axe. They deck it with silver and with gold; they fasten it with nails and with hammers, that it move not.

"the work of the hands of the workman, with the axe' How in the world do you think they cut the tree down? with their teeth? 'the work of the hands of the workman, with the axe' describes how the tree is cut down.

The graven images in Jeremiah 10 were of metal, not wood. The tree was used to put the molten images on, hence decking it with silver and gold.

Jeremiah 10:14 Every man is brutish in his knowledge: every founder is confounded by the graven image: for his molten image is falsehood, and there is no breath in them.

So you need a skilled craftsman to cut down a tree? The word that is translated as "workman" really means a craftsman, artisan, engraver - all words denoting great skill and not just some dude who's cutting down a Christmas tree at a Christmas tree farm.

But yes, I agree that the tree was carved and then covered with silver and gold - certainly NOT our Christmas tree that we have today.

 

[Steadfast Fred]

So you need a skilled craftsman to cut down a tree? The word that is translated as "workman" really means a craftsman, artisan, engraver - all words denoting great skill and not just some dude who's cutting down a Christmas tree at a Christmas tree farm.

But yes, I agree that the tree was carved and then covered with silver and gold - certainly NOT our Christmas tree that we have today.

That passage nowhere says the tree was carved, only that it was cut down. Verses 9 & 14 reveal that it was the silver and gold that were carved; i.e., graven. They were carved by workmen who crafted the graven images.

Is not that what many do today? Put images that are made of metals and glass on their trees?

The tree that the pagans hung graven images on is a forerunner of what many call a Christmas tree today. The practice is almost identical.