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Christology and Preterism Part 2

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by prophecy70, Oct 22, 2017.

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  1. prophecy70

    prophecy70 Active Member

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    For the sake of this thread, Im not posting any Judaism commentaries or Homosexual ones. I do not debate those.


    Care to withdraw your source?

    Luke 21

    32. This generation--not "this nation," as some interpret it, which, though admissible in itself, seems very unnatural here.
    Commentary on Luke 21 by Jamieson, Fausset & Brown



    26. And then shall they see the Son of man coming in the clouds with great power and glory--In Mat 24:30, this is given most fully: "And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven; and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man," &c. That this language finds its highest interpretation in the Second Personal Coming of Christ, is most certain. But the question is, whether that be the primary sense of it as it stands here? Now if the reader will turn to Dan 7:13, 14, and connect with it the preceding verses, he will find, we think, the true key to our Lord's meaning here. There the powers that oppressed the Church--symbolized by rapacious wild beasts--are summoned to the bar of the Great God, who as the Ancient of days seats Himself, with His assessors, on a burning Throne: thousand thousands ministering to Him, and ten thousand times ten thousand standing before Him. "The judgment is set, and the books are opened." Who that is guided by the mere words would doubt that this is a description of the Final Judgment? And yet nothing is clearer than that it is not, but a description of a vast temporal judgment, upon organized bodies of men, for their incurable hostility to the kingdom of God upon earth. Well, after the doom of these has been pronounced and executed, and room thus prepared for the unobstructed development of the kingdom of God over the earth, what follows? "I saw in the night visions, and behold, one like THE SON OF MAN came with the clouds of heaven, and came to the Ancient of days, and they [the angelic attendants] brought Him near before Him." For what purpose? To receive investiture in the kingdom, which, as Messiah, of right belonged to Him. Accordingly, it is added, "And there was given Him dominion, and glory, and a kingdom, that all peoples, nations, and languages should serve Him: His dominion is an everlasting dominion, which shall not pass away, and His kingdom that which shall not be destroyed." Comparing this with our Lord's words, He seems to us, by "the Son of man [on which phrase, see on JF & B for Joh 1:51] coming in the clouds with great power and glory," to mean, that when judicial vengeance shall once have been executed upon Jerusalem, and the ground thus cleared for the unobstructed establishment of His own kingdom, His true regal claims and rights would be visibly and gloriously asserted and manifested. See on JF & B for Lu 9:28 (with its parallels in Mat 17:1 Mar 9:2 ), in which nearly the same language is employed, and where it can hardly be understood of anything else than the full and free establishment of the kingdom of Christ on the destruction of Jerusalem.


    Commentary on Mark 13 by Jamieson, Fausset & Brown
     
    #21 prophecy70, Oct 23, 2017
    Last edited: Oct 23, 2017
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  2. Martin Marprelate

    Martin Marprelate Well-Known Member
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    You used the future tense; I think you might have used the present. We are already one in Christ Jesus.
     
    #22 Martin Marprelate, Oct 23, 2017
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  3. HankD

    HankD Well-Known Member
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    Matthew 24
    32 Now learn a parable of the fig tree; When his branch is yet tender, and putteth forth leaves, ye know that summer is nigh:
    33 So likewise ye, when ye shall see all these things, know that it is near, even at the doors.
    34 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled.

    "This generation" - The one that sees the fig tree blossom.

    HankD
     
    #23 HankD, Oct 23, 2017
  4. David Kent

    David Kent Well-Known Member
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    I have two fig trees and they don't blossom, they send out shoots. The figs usually appear before the leaves and without blossom.

    But that is to do with reading the signs. When you see the AoD, that is when you see Jerusalem surrounded by armies, know that its desolation is nigh.
    • Luke 21:29-32 And he spake to them a parable; Behold the fig tree, and all the trees;
    • 30When they now shoot forth, ye see and know of your own selves that summer is now nigh at hand.
    • 31So likewise ye, when ye see these things come to pass, know ye that the kingdom of God is nigh at hand.
    • 32Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass away, till all be fulfilled.
    Otherwise, when you see the plants spring back into life, you know that summer is coming
     
    #24 David Kent, Oct 23, 2017
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  5. Martin Marprelate

    Martin Marprelate Well-Known Member
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    The kingdom of God was already 'at hand' when those words were spoken (Mark 1:15; Matthew 12:28).
     
    #25 Martin Marprelate, Oct 23, 2017
  6. HankD

    HankD Well-Known Member
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    I used "blossom" in a generic but inappropriate way. - I am sorry.

    I believe we will indeed soon see Jerusalem surrounded by armies and as a matter of fact it seems to currently be surrounded by Islamic armies.

    http://www.alphanewsdaily.com/Israel Islam World Map Crop.gif

    Russia would be the glue that holds the antichrist Islamic regime together and give them the impetus to invade the Holy Land.

    It's at the door?

    HankD
     
    #26 HankD, Oct 23, 2017
  7. TCassidy

    TCassidy Late-Administator Emeritus
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    LOL! ROFLOL! You quote Jamieson, FAUSSET, and Brown then use it to call Fausset a liar! You are a riot!
     
    #27 TCassidy, Oct 23, 2017
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  8. Covenanter

    Covenanter Well-Known Member
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    You are the only one here using the word "liar."

    You claim to quote Fausset without giving a reference link. We find a link to the JFB commentary he collaborated on & you come back insulting - but still with no link.

    We've seen a lot of your suspect comments on other threads, so how can we trust you. When I quote a link I give it, otherwise I write my own posts.
     
    #28 Covenanter, Oct 23, 2017
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  9. TCassidy

    TCassidy Late-Administator Emeritus
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    Why not post what Fausset really wrote on the subject?

    -----Begin Quoted Material

    "The idol (See ABOMINATION) of the desolator," or "the idol that causeth desolation." Abomination refers especially to such idolatry only as is perpetrated by apostates from Jehovah (2Ki_21:2-7; 2Ki_23:13). Josephus (B. J., 4:6, sec. 3) refers to the Jews' tradition that the temple would be destroyed "if domestic hands should first pollute it." The Lord quotes Dan_9:27; Dan_11:31; Dan_12:11, in Mat_24:15 "the abomination of desolation," as the sign of Jerusalem's coming destruction. Daniel makes the ceasing of the sacrifice and oblation the preliminary to it.

    Jewish rabbis considered the prophecy fulfilled when the Jews erected an idol altar, described as "the abomination of desolation" in 1Ma_1:54; 1Ma_6:7. This was necessarily followed by the profanation of the temple under the Old Testament antichrist, Antiochus Epiphanes. He built an idolatrous altar on the altar of burnt offering to Jupiter Olympius, and dedicated the temple to him, and offered swine's flesh.

    The divine law is that where the church corrupts herself, the world, the instrument of her sin, is made also the instrument of her punishment (Mat_24:28; Rev_17:3; Rev_17:16). The bringing of the idolatrous, Roman, image crowned standards into the temple, where they were set over the E. gate, and sacrificed to, upon the destruction of Jerusalem under the Roman Titus, 37 years after Jesus' prophecy (A.D. 70), is not enough to meet the requirements of the term "abomination," unless it were shown that the Jews shared in the idolatry. Perhaps the Zealots perpetrated some abomination which was to be the sign of the nation's ruin. They had taken possession of the temple, and having made a profane country fellow, Phannias, their high priest, they made a mock of the sacred rites of the law.

    Some such desecration within the city, "in the holy place," coinciding with Cestius Gallus' encampment without, "in a holy place," was the sign foretold by Jesus; noting it, the Christians fled from the city to Pella, and all escaped. The final fulfillment is future. The last antichrist, many think, is about to set up an idol on a wing of the restored temple (compare Mat_4:5; Joh_5:43) in the latter half of the last, or 70th, of Daniel's prophetic weeks; for the former three and a half days (years) of the prophetic week he keeps his covenant with the Jews; in the latter three and a half breaks it (Zec_11:16-17; Zec_11:12; Zec_11:13; Zec_11:14; Daniel 9; 11). The Roman emperor Hadrian erected a temple to Jupiter upon the site of the Jewish temple; but probably "the consummation to be poured upon the desolate" is yet future.

    ------------

    End quoted material
     
    #29 TCassidy, Oct 23, 2017
  10. TCassidy

    TCassidy Late-Administator Emeritus
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    Once again I seem to have overestimated you, and for that I apologize. I assumed (apparently wrongly) that you had access to a decent library, but that seems not to be the case.

    It is pretty much understood when quoting the Jamieson, Fausset, and Brown Commentary the reference "JFB" is sufficient to identify the source. When quoting the Fausset Bible Dictionary the reference "Fausset" is sufficient to identify the source.

    So, as you and your groupies seem to abhor paper and ink libraries for some odd reason I will find an on-line source for you to read.

    Here we go. Only took about .2 seconds to find it. Try it some time. You may like it.

    Abomination of Desolation - Fausset's Bible Dictionary - Bible Dictionary - StudyLight.org
     
    #30 TCassidy, Oct 23, 2017
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  11. kyredneck

    kyredneck Well-Known Member
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    You threw this up in my face twice on the other thread. What's your point? You looking for some kind of exaltation because you know some Greek? I don't NEED to learn Greek, and I definitely don't need YOU in order to come to sound doctrine. God has provided multitudes of able scholars for us common 'unlearned and ignorant' students to draw from, scholars that see the same thing we do in the scriptures. For me to learn Greek would be akin to rebuilding the clock.
     
    #31 kyredneck, Oct 23, 2017
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  12. TCassidy

    TCassidy Late-Administator Emeritus
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    The point is that when you don't know what you are talking about it is a good time to stop talking.
     
    #32 TCassidy, Oct 23, 2017
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  13. John of Japan

    John of Japan Well-Known Member
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    In the first place, you misnamed this thread. It is not a continuation of the other thread, but is built from a side trail in that thread that did not follow the OP. I briefly followed that side trail on that previous thread to correct the linguistic errors that were being made on that thread.

    Here on this thread I see you acting like a Greek scholar or teacher (genos vs. genea? Really?). So as a genuine Greek teacher and Bible translator, I'll just let you wander on your own path.

    Pet peeve, often seen on the BB (especially on the Bible translations forum): people who post as if they really know the original languages when they don't. I hate faking.
     
    #33 John of Japan, Oct 23, 2017
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  14. John of Japan

    John of Japan Well-Known Member
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    So with your last statement, you appear to be saying that the writers of the Bible, inspired by God, should have used genos when they wanted to mean "race" rather than genea. Did you actually mean to correct the Bible writers?
     
    #34 John of Japan, Oct 23, 2017
  15. David Kent

    David Kent Well-Known Member
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    We don't need commentaries when we have the bible. After all commentaries vary among all teachings.
     
    #35 David Kent, Oct 23, 2017
  16. kyredneck

    kyredneck Well-Known Member
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    So when are you going to stop talking?

    If knowing Greek causes you to have contempt for the very simplest of hermeneutics of searching and comparing scriptures, and blinds you to the synomony held within, I want nothing to do with learning Greek.

    If knowing Greek causes one to become pompous I definitely want nothing to do with it.
     
    #36 kyredneck, Oct 23, 2017
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  17. John of Japan

    John of Japan Well-Known Member
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    They are correct. The Bible does not condone homosexuality, it condemns it. But I've never read a Greek lexicon that didn't give the words translated as "homosexual" or "sodomy" as just that.

    Never heard of this.

    I think I'll get back to work. I have a busy day today. I have a genuine Greek quiz to grade, and a genuine Greek test to grade, taken by my genuine Greek students today. No time to waste on Greek silliness.
     
    #37 John of Japan, Oct 23, 2017
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  18. TCassidy

    TCassidy Late-Administator Emeritus
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    When I don't know what I am talking about, unlike you.

    Once again you demonstrate a remarkable inability to understand rather simple concepts. The issue is not searching and comparing scriptures but whether or not slavishly translating the same Greek word into the same English word is good translation technique, or something only a person grossly ignorant of translation technique would suggest, or support.

    Yes, of course. Anyone who knows something you don't know or has an opinion different than yours is automatically "pompous" in your fevered estimation. :rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:
     
    #38 TCassidy, Oct 23, 2017
  19. robycop3

    robycop3 Well-Known Member
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    How absurd!

    What did Jesus' return look like? Did you see it?

    Well, I didn't, but Jesus said ALL would see it, even those who pierced Him.
     
    #39 robycop3, Oct 23, 2017
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  20. TCassidy

    TCassidy Late-Administator Emeritus
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    Yes, of course. Your ability to exegete the Hebrew and Greek far surpasses the abilities of the scholarly commentators so why listen to anyone, just assume you already know everything you need to know.

    By the way, the idea "I already know all about that" is the greatest hindrance to learning that exists in the mind of man.

    So, may I assume you also reject all the great Confessions of faith because you have a bible? You eschew The Westminster Confession of Faith and all that it teaches?

    You reject the Heidelberg Confession because you have a bible?

    You reject the Canons of Dordt because you have a bible?

    And as a Baptist you reject the 1644 Baptist Confession of Faith, Keach's Catechism, the 1689 Baptist Confession of Faith, because you have a bible?
     
    #40 TCassidy, Oct 23, 2017
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