Christ's Atonement for Sins

[russell55]

3. Souls that are condemned are so punsihed not becuase of their sins, since it was already paid for by the death of Christ, but because of their unbelief, which resulted to them lacking the rigtheousness that Christ's blood has for them.

They are punished for unbelief, yes, but also for their sins:

But because of your stubbornness and unrepentant heart you are storing up wrath for yourself in the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God, who will render to each man according to his deeds..

God's wrath is meted out to unbelievers for their deeds--for their individual sins.

 

[Pastor Larry]

Originally posted by Primitive Baptist:
And when he was disposed to pass into Achaia, the brethren wrote, exhorting the disciples to receive him: who, when he was come, helped them much which had believed through grace: (Acts 18:27)

If faith is necessary to obtain justification, how can these people be said to have believed through grace? The righteousness of Christ is not imputed as a result of faith, but it is the very source of our faith.

Romans 5:1 Therefore, having been justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ ... Seems clear to me ... If Scripture says it, then it is worth believing. I do not know that the righteousness of Christ is ever said to be the source of faith. You will have to show that one from Scripture.

Righteousness comes by grace, as does faith. Imputed righteousness does not result in faith.

 

[Primitive Baptist]

If you would have read that article I posted, you would know exactly what it means to be justified by faith. That verse states that by faith we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ. Jesus Christ is the focus of our faith, and when we perceive that Jesus Christ is our Saviour and Redeemer, we can have that peace that only He can give. Faith does not justify us before God, only His grace can do that. "Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus" (Rom. 3:24). Now, would we be FREELY justified by grace if we had to do something in order to get that grace??? Absolutely not!

 

[connieman]

Aki....men are born sinners, and have no more choice about it, than a man born black, or white, or red, or yellow. According to his nature, the sinner opposes God...and only God can deliver a man from his inborn nature.

"Can the Ethiopian change his skin, or the leopard his spots? Then may ye do good who are accustomed to do evil."

I might say that a sinful man can do good "when Hell freezes over, or when pigs fly."

connieman

[ May 25, 2002, 02:28 AM: Message edited by: connieman ]

 

[russell55]

Now, would we be FREELY justified by grace if we had to do something in order to get that grace???

We would be freely justified by grace if the faith we were justified by was freely given to us by God's grace.

 

[Pastor Larry]

Originally posted by Primitive Baptist:
If you would have read that article I posted, you would know exactly what it means to be justified by faith.

I know what it means without reading your article. For some reason, you resist the biblical teaching that faith comes through grace. Paul is hte one that said we were justified by faith. He also says we are justified by grace. There is no real difficulty here. Just use your discipline of systematic theology.

That verse states that by faith we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ.

And this is predicated on "having been justified by faith."

Now, would we be FREELY justified by grace if we had to do something in order to get that grace??? Absolutely not!

Who said we had to do anything to get grace? You did not read that in my post for sure.

 

[Primitive Baptist]

I think there is a big misunderstanding here...

I believe that we have faith because of grace, and I am not denying that. What I am denying is that we have to believe in order to get that grace. If we believe because of grace, how can you say that we believe in order to obtain grace??? In other words, we're believing by grace in order to get grace??? I am confused

 

[Pastor Larry]

Originally posted by Primitive Baptist:
I think there is a big misunderstanding here...

I believe that we have faith because of grace, and I am not denying that. What I am denying is that we have to believe in order to get that grace. If we believe because of grace, how can you say that we believe in order to obtain grace??? In other words, we're believing by grace in order to get grace??? I am confused

There could be a misunderstanding. I do not see anything wrong with what you have said here. I don't think we have to believe to get grace. I do think we have to believe to be justified because Scripture says we are justified by faith.

 

[Primitive Baptist]

Pastor Larry,

We both believe that faith does not give us grace. This was a misunderstanding on my part because either I failed to understand your posts or not read them thoroughly. What we do disagree on is that OUR faith justifies us. I posted a portion of an article written by James Oliphant, a great Primitive Baptist brother on the thread, "Why Calvinism is Cool." Please read it. It examines faith and Romans 4:16.

"Therefore it is of faith, that it might be by grace..." (Rom. 416)