Christ's Blood Sanctifies !

[savedbymercy]

HP: Coming from you, and any other supporting a sinning religion, I will wear that as a badge of honor.:thumbs:

As it has been said, what one man calls works is another's obedience.

Yep, works or obedience, it is the same, you preach salvation by one's works or by their obedience, in defiance to the scriptural Gospel that declares that those Christ died for are made Righteous by the Obedience of ONE ! Rom 5:19

19For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of One shall many be made righteous.

 

[The Biblicist]

The works we are not to do are circumcision, various ceremonial washings, the observance of special days, sin and gift offerings, animal sacrifices.

That is not the meaning of "the works of the Law" by Paul in Romans 2-7 as he defines "the law" consistently to include THE TEN COMMANDMENTS from Romans 2 to Romans 7 and thus the MORAL law which He says does not justify us but we are justified by faith "without the works of the law" without personal obedience of the Ten commandments:


In Romans 7:1-5 he says we are "DEAD TO THE LAW" and the law he refers to includes the tenth commandment:

Rom. 7:4 Wherefore, my brethren, ye also are become dead to the law by the body of Christ.......7 ¶ What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet.


Thus far your only response is to pit scripture against scripture. You come back saying when is it right to sin, when is it right to commit adultery, when is it ever right to covet??????

Answer: it is never right to violate any aspect of the law but the fact is YOU HAVE ALREADY DONE IT and thus you are already under the condemnation of the law. Therefore there can be no justifiation by law keeping, keeping the ten commandments because you have already been condemned.

You cannot keep the law as to fail in one point is to fail in all points. Hence, justification by faith in the PERSONAL OBEDIENCE OF CHRIST TO THE LAW IN YOUR BEHALF, IN YOUR PLACE is the only way you can be justified before God. Christ fulfills it in the place of the sinner and God counts HIS RIGHTEOUS LIFE as yours by faith and counts HIS DEATH as your death to the law by faith. Hence, by faith you are DEAD to the law THROUGH THE DEATH OF CHRIST.

Hence, we are no more UNDER THE LAW for justification or condemnation but have died to the law by faith in Christ and the law has no more AUTHORITY over us any more than it does dead people - this is Paul's point in the following words:

1 ¶ Know ye not, brethren, (for I speak to them that know the law,) how that the law hath dominion over a man as long as he liveth?
2 For the woman which hath an husband is bound by the law to her husband so long as he liveth; but if the husband be dead, she is loosed from the law of her husband.
3 So then if, while her husband liveth, she be married to another man, she shall be called an adulteress: but if her husband be dead, she is free from that law; so that she is no adulteress, though she be married to another man.
4 Wherefore, my brethren, ye also are become dead to the law by the body of Christ; that ye should be married to another, even to him who is raised from the dead, that we should bring forth fruit unto God.
5 For when we were in the flesh, the motions of sins, which were by the law, did work in our members to bring forth fruit unto death.
6 But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter.

However, your position is that you are still ALIVE to the law, as you REJECT JESUS CHRIST and HIS PROVISION of a substitutionary life and death and believe YOU must fulfill, satisfy the TEN COMMANDMENTS for yourself before God in order to be justified! That is impossible and you will not be justified but condemned to hell forever.

 

[savedbymercy]

bib

Rom. 7:4 Wherefore, my brethren, ye also are become dead to the law by the body of Christ

Everyone Christ died for, is dead to the Law, even when they are born sinners. Even then, while sinners, children of wrath as others, God's Law has no condemnation against them, because Christ has already suffered it in their behalf, and so, they come out of the womb Justified from all Law Breaking !

 

[The Biblicist]

bib



Everyone Christ died for, is dead to the Law, even when they are born sinners. Even then, while sinners, children of wrath as others, God's Law has no condemnation against them, because Christ has already suffered it in their behalf, and so, they come out of the womb Justified from all Law Breaking !

you cannot distinguish between Purpose and fulfillment! Christ's death had that purpose in view but it was not fulfilled except through faith in his blood as God ordains the application as much as the means and one without the other is worthless.

In Isaiah 46:11 God Himself speaking of His own purpose said, "I WILL DO it." Hence, God Himself does not view his purpose as finished, completed, reality, or else he would never say "I WILL do it." You need to go learn what that means and apply it to God's Purpose since God Himself applies it to his purpose. God denies what He purposed is finished. God purposed our justiication, calling and glorification but God Himself does not view them as fulfilled, completed, done, but yet something he must "DO."

 

[savedbymercy]

you cannot distinguish between Purpose and fulfillment! Christ's death had that purpose in view but it was not fulfilled except through faith in his blood as God ordains the application as much as the means and one without the other is worthless.

In Isaiah 46:11 God Himself speaking of His own purpose said, "I WILL DO it." Hence, God Himself does not view his purpose as finished, completed, reality, or else he would never say "I WILL do it." You need to go learn what that means and apply it to God's Purpose since God Himself applies it to his purpose. God denies what He purposed is finished. God purposed our justiication, calling and glorification but God Himself does not view them as fulfilled, completed, done, but yet something he must "DO."

Christ fulfilled God's saving Purpose on the Cross. It is finished Jn 19:30

When Jesus therefore had received the vinegar, He said, "It is finished." And He bowed His head and gave up the ghost.

This is a fulfillment of Dan 9:24

24"Seventy weeks are determined concerning thy people and concerning thy holy city to finish the transgression and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the Most Holy.

Christ satisfied all of God's Law and Justice for everyone He died for, therefore, when they are born into this world as sinners by nature, enemies of God by Nature, they are still born already, Justified by His Blood, and Reconciled by His Death Rom 5:9-10..

Their Faith has nothing to do with it, because this is true of them, their reconciliation and Justification before God while they are in unbelief !

You deny this, you deny salvation by Grace through Faith !

 

[The Biblicist]

Christ fulfilled God's saving Purpose on the Cross. It is finished Jn 19:30

When Jesus therefore had received the vinegar, He said, "It is finished." And He bowed His head and gave up the ghost.

This is a fulfillment of Dan 9:24

24"Seventy weeks are determined concerning thy people and concerning thy holy city to finish the transgression and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the Most Holy.

Christ satisfied all of God's Law and Justice for everyone He died for, therefore, when they are born into this world as sinners by nature, enemies of God by Nature, they are still born already, Justified by His Blood, and Reconciled by His Death Rom 5:9-10..

Their Faith has nothing to do with it, because this is true of them, their reconciliation and Justification before God while they are in unbelief !

You deny this, you deny salvation by Grace through Faith !

What Christ finished was God's purposed BASIS for salvation. Christ did not finish God's purposed APPLICATION of that basis and therefore none of the elect were saved, justified, called or glorified because the BASIS does not save anyone anymore than the PURPOSE saves anyone. It is God purposed application that actually and literally saves. Until God's purposed application occurs there are no elect saved, redeemed, regenerated, justified, or glorified except according to purposed Design and basis.

What was finished was the purposed provision/basis what was not finished was the application of "saved" "regenerated" "called" "glorified" etc. That is something beyond the cross that God says "I WILL DO it" not that he has already DONE it (Isa. 46:10-11).

 

[savedbymercy]

the bib

What Christ finished was God's purposed BASIS for salvation

What was finished, was that Christ, as Promised paid the whole sin debt of God's Law and Justice for the sins of the Elect that were charged upon Him as their Surety before the world began ! That is what He came into the world to do. Heb 10:4-9

4for it is not possible that the blood of bulls and of goats should take away sins.


5Therefore when He cometh into the world, He saith, "Sacrifice and offering Thou wouldest not have, but a body hast Thou prepared for Me.


6In burnt offerings and sacrifices for sin Thou hast had no pleasure.


7Then said I, `Lo, I come (in the volume of the Book it is written of Me) to do Thy will, O God.'"


8Above when He said, "Sacrifice and offering and burnt offerings, and offering for sin Thou wouldest not have, neither hadst pleasure therein" (which are offered in accordance with the law),


9then said He, "Lo, I come to do Thy will, O God," He taketh away the first, that He may establish the second.

 

[The Biblicist]

the bib



What was finished, was that Christ, as Promised paid the whole sin debt of God's Law and Justice for the sins of the Elect that were charged upon Him as their Surety before the world began ! That is what He came into the world to do. Heb 10:4-9

You cannot isolate the purpose of God from the predestinated carrying out of that purpose and regard the elect already saved, redeemed, justified, called or glorified other than by ABSTRACT design.

You cannot isolate the purposed redemptive work of Christ from the purposed application of redemption to the elect and regard the elect already saved, redeemed, justified, called or glorified other than by COMPLETED PROVISION.

There is no such doctrine in Scripture that isolates God's purpose from God's purposed provision and application but regards the elect as already saved in any realistic sense but only ABSTRACTLY as that demanded by God's very words that what "I have purposed" is what "I WILL DO."

There is no such doctrine in Scripture that isolates the purposed completed redemptive work of Christ from the purposed application work by the Holy Spirit to the elect but regards the elect already saved in any realistic sense but only PROVISIONALLY as that is demanded by God's very words that what "I have purposed" is what "I WILL DO" and it is not done until they are concretely regenerated, justified, sanctified and glorified.

The elect are born UNDER THE LAW and therefore UNDER THE CONDEMNATION OF THE LAW or else they could not be regarded by the law as sinners. God's purposed application of redemption is through the work of the Holy Spirit and you are making the work of redemption by the Second Person of the Godhead stand alone and thus rejecting the redemptive work of the Third Person of the Godhead.

The etenral covenant is between all THREE Persons of the Godhead and salvation cannot be regarded as finished by any isolated work of One Person of the Godhead and yet that is precisely how your view of salvation teaches.

 

[savedbymercy]

the bib

You cannot isolate the purpose of God from the predestinated carrying out of that purpose and regard the elect already saved, redeemed, justified, called or glorified other than by ABSTRACT design.

What was finished, was that Christ, as Promised paid the whole sin debt of God's Law and Justice for the sins of the Elect that were charged upon Him as their Surety before the world began ! That is what He came into the world to do. Heb 10:4-9

 

[DHK]

HP: Where do you come up with that as a definition of holiness?

1 Peter 1:15-16 But as he which hath called you is holy, so be ye holy in all manner of conversation; Because it is written, Be ye holy; for I am holy.

In commenting on 1Pet.1:15, the great scholar Alexander Maclaren had this to say:

Religion is imitation. The truest form of worship is to copy. All through heathenism you find that principle working. 'They that make them are like unto them.' Why are heathen nations so besotted and sunken and obstinate in their foulnesses? Because their gods are their examples, and they, first of all, make the gods after the pattern of their own evil imaginations, and then the evil imaginations, deified, react upon the maker and make him tenfold more a child of hell than themselves. Worship is imitation, and there is no religion which does not necessarily involve the copying of the example or the pattern of that Being before whom we bow. For religion is but love and reverence in the superlative degree, and the natural operation of love is to copy, and the natural operation of reverence is the same. So that the old Mosaic law, 'Be ye holy as I am holy,' went to the very heart of religion. And the New Testament form of it, as Paul puts it in a very bold word, 'Be ye imitators of God, as beloved children,' sets its seal on the same thought that we are religious in the proportion in which we are consciously copying and aspiring after God.


But then, says somebody or other, 'it is not possible.' Well, if it were not possible, try it all the same. For in this world it is aim and not attainment that makes the noble life; and it is better to shoot at the stars, even though your arrow never reaches them, than to fire it along the low levels of ordinary life. I do not see that however the unattainableness of the model may be demonstrated, that has anything to do with the duty of imitation. Because, though absolute conformity running throughout the whole of a life is not possible here on earth, we know that in each individual instance in which we came short of conformity the fault was ours, and it might have been otherwise. Instead of bewildering ourselves with questions about 'unattainable' or 'attainable,' suppose we asked, at each failure, 'Why did I not copy God then; was it because I could not, or because I would not?' The answer would come plain enough to knock all that sophisticated nonsense out of our heads, and to make us feel that the law which puts an unattainable ideal before the Christian as his duty is an intensely practical one, and may be reduced to practice at each step in his career. Imitation of the Father, and to be perfect, 'as our Father in heaven is perfect,' is the elementary and the ultimate commandment of all Christian morality. 'Be ye holy as He that hath called you is holy.'

And that was just a small part of it!

 

[Moriah]

That is not the meaning of "the works of the Law" by Paul in Romans 2-7 as he defines "the law" consistently to include THE TEN COMMANDMENTS from Romans 2 to Romans 7 and thus the MORAL law which He says does not justify us but we are justified by faith "without the works of the law" without personal obedience of the Ten commandments:


In Romans 7:1-5 he says we are "DEAD TO THE LAW" and the law he refers to includes the tenth commandment:

Rom. 7:4 Wherefore, my brethren, ye also are become dead to the law by the body of Christ.......7 ¶ What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet.


Thus far your only response is to pit scripture against scripture. You come back saying when is it right to sin, when is it right to commit adultery, when is it ever right to covet??????

Answer: it is never right to violate any aspect of the law but the fact is YOU HAVE ALREADY DONE IT and thus you are already under the condemnation of the law. Therefore there can be no justifiation by law keeping, keeping the ten commandments because you have already been condemned.

You cannot keep the law as to fail in one point is to fail in all points. Hence, justification by faith in the PERSONAL OBEDIENCE OF CHRIST TO THE LAW IN YOUR BEHALF, IN YOUR PLACE is the only way you can be justified before God. Christ fulfills it in the place of the sinner and God counts HIS RIGHTEOUS LIFE as yours by faith and counts HIS DEATH as your death to the law by faith. Hence, by faith you are DEAD to the law THROUGH THE DEATH OF CHRIST.

Hence, we are no more UNDER THE LAW for justification or condemnation but have died to the law by faith in Christ and the law has no more AUTHORITY over us any more than it does dead people - this is Paul's point in the following words:

1 ¶ Know ye not, brethren, (for I speak to them that know the law,) how that the law hath dominion over a man as long as he liveth?
2 For the woman which hath an husband is bound by the law to her husband so long as he liveth; but if the husband be dead, she is loosed from the law of her husband.
3 So then if, while her husband liveth, she be married to another man, she shall be called an adulteress: but if her husband be dead, she is free from that law; so that she is no adulteress, though she be married to another man.
4 Wherefore, my brethren, ye also are become dead to the law by the body of Christ; that ye should be married to another, even to him who is raised from the dead, that we should bring forth fruit unto God.
5 For when we were in the flesh, the motions of sins, which were by the law, did work in our members to bring forth fruit unto death.
6 But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter.

However, your position is that you are still ALIVE to the law, as you REJECT JESUS CHRIST and HIS PROVISION of a substitutionary life and death and believe YOU must fulfill, satisfy the TEN COMMANDMENTS for yourself before God in order to be justified! That is impossible and you will not be justified but condemned to hell forever.

Your logic and teachings are false and illogical. Just read Romans 2:7 “To those who by persistence in doing good seek glory, honor and immorality, he will give eternal life.
Does that sound like everything in the Old Testament is no longer for us to do? NO! God nailed the written code with its regulations to the cross. God did not nail stop sinning to the cross! God did not nail doing good to the cross! People no longer have to be circumcised in the flesh to belong to God. People no longer have to do various ceremonial washings, observance of special days, gift offerings, and sin offerings, animal sacrifices…just to worship God.

 

[Yeshua1]

the bib



What was finished, was that Christ, as Promised paid the whole sin debt of God's Law and Justice for the sins of the Elect that were charged upon Him as their Surety before the world began ! That is what He came into the world to do. Heb 10:4-9

god also ordained that by faith will one access the Grace of god provided/in/by the Cross!

 

[savedbymercy]

god also ordained that by faith will one access the Grace of god provided/in/by the Cross!

You preach a False works salvation, see ya at the Judgment ! You deny Justification by the Blood of Christ alone, which the Resurrection of Christ evidences of all those Christ died for ! Rom 4:25

25who was delivered for[because of] our offenses, and was raised again for[because of] our justification.

 

[Yeshua1]

You preach a False works salvation, see ya at the Judgment ! You deny Justification by the Blood of Christ alone, which the Resurrection of Christ evidences of all those Christ died for ! Rom 4:25

25who was delivered for[because of] our offenses, and was raised again for[because of] our justification.

Are you doubting that I am even a Christian then , since to you hold to a "false gospel?"

 

[savedbymercy]

Are you doubting that I am even a Christian then , since to you hold to a "false gospel?"

I consider no one a believer who preaches Salvation by works and who denies that Christ's death alone Justifies everyone He died for, which the Resurrection attest to. Rom 4:25

25who was delivered for our offenses, and was raised again for our justification.

 

[Fred's Wife]

Are you doubting that I am even a Christian then , since to you hold to a "false gospel?"

SBM believes and proclaims that only the "elect" (those who God arbitrarily "predestinated" for salvation) are saved and sanctified....all the rest are "predestined" for the Lake of Fire. When asked how one knows that they are "elect", SBM will tell you to "deal with the Scriptures"...meaning the Scriptures he conveniently "pulls out of context" in order to "prove" his false teaching.

 

[Yeshua1]

SBM believes and proclaims that only the "elect" (those who God arbitrarily "predestinated" for salvation) are saved and sanctified....all the rest are "predestined" for the Lake of Fire. When asked how one knows that they are "elect", SBM will tell you to "deal with the Scriptures"...meaning the Scriptures he conveniently "pulls out of context" in order to "prove" his false teaching.

He MUST be the one promoting heresy regarding this, as BOTh cals/non cals here agree that one MUST place faith in jesus in order to be saved/justified by God!

 

[Yeshua1]

I consider no one a believer who preaches Salvation by works and who denies that Christ's death alone Justifies everyone He died for, which the Resurrection attest to. Rom 4:25

25who was delivered for our offenses, and was raised again for our justification.

you call the salvation of the Apostles/prophets into question, as ALL of them affirmed one must have faith in God/messiah/his promises to be saved by Him!

 

[Moriah]

He MUST be the one promoting heresy regarding this, as BOTh cals/non cals here agree that one MUST place faith in jesus in order to be saved/justified by God!

No, Calvinists believe that no human can put their faith in Jesus until AFTER Jesus saves them, not before.
The only main differences between SBM’s and regular Calvinists are that SBM does not believe anyone has to evangelize.

 

[Thinkingstuff]

SBM believes and proclaims that only the "elect" (those who God arbitrarily "predestinated" for salvation) are saved and sanctified....all the rest are "predestined" for the Lake of Fire. When asked how one knows that they are "elect", SBM will tell you to "deal with the Scriptures"...meaning the Scriptures he conveniently "pulls out of context" in order to "prove" his false teaching.

I like and agree with the Term"arbitrarily". Logic makes it necissary for election to be arbitrary. These are the terms. 1) Man can not Merit God's favor. 2) Man is elected not based on any identifier which makes him "more acceptable to God." 3) God ordains those chosen to be elect and those who are not elect. Logically since God Chooses men not based on anything of value in the man or about the man before man was created then the system of which to elect and which to damn must be arbitrary. Which logically means that there is a greater force than God. That force would be luck. Ie the luck of the draw. That is the failure of supralapsarianism or Hyper Calvinism.