Reformed1689
Well-Known Member
Church and Israel, is the church true Israel? Are they separate? What, if any, are the distinctions? What are your thoughts and views?
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is the church true Israel?
And is there, in your view, any distinction between the church and Israel.Those born from Jerusalem above Galatians 4:26, with the work of the law written in their hearts Romans 2:13-15, with hearts circumcised Romans 2:29, built up a spiritual house, to be a holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices 1 Peter 2:5 are the true Israel.
And is there, in your view, any distinction between the church and Israel.
To put this bluntly, I'm wanting people's views on Covenant Theology with regard to this matter.
What are your thoughts and views?
I agree with Henry!:
"'Tis ordinarily said, that the Jews were a typical people, the whole divine economy toward them is doctrinal and instructive to us, not immediately or literally, but by way of Anagogy" - Henry Hammond
Well, not exactly. The church and saved Israel who are part of the church. The word of God makes the distinction. Galatians 6:16, ". . . peace be on them, and mercy, and upon the Israel of God. . . ." And in the bride of Christ the distinction is again made (Revelation 21:12 Israel, Revelation 21:14, the 12 Apostles of the church).This thread shines light on the problem with Traditional Dispensationalism, the idea that the church is separate from "all Israel" is bogus doctrine. How anyone could read Galatians 3 and not see the church as a part "all Israel" is beyond me.
Well, not exactly. The church and saved Israel who are part of the church. The word of God makes the distinction. Galatians 6:16, ". . . peace be on them, and mercy, and upon the Israel of God. . . ." And in the bride of Christ the distinction is again made (Revelation 21:12 Israel, Revelation 21:14, the 12 Apostles of the church).
I didn't read that as two separate. I read it as there is Israel, but then there is the Israel of God that is part of the church.They are the same entities. If I were to say to you, "You are a gentleman and a scholar." does that make two of you?
No. And one can be a scholar and not a gentleman.If I were to say to you, "You are a gentleman and a scholar." does that make two of you?
Utter nonsense. Two distinct groups who share a common membership does not remove the distinction which makes them two distinct groups.They are the same entities.
Ah, but It may NOT be true. I have known gentlemen who are NOT scholars and scholars who are NO gentlemen.They are the same entities. If I were to say to you, "You are a gentleman and a scholar." does that make two of you?
So saying that Israel is the church does not make it true.
When the Holy Spirit says it, it's true:
37 This is that Moses, who said unto the children of Israel, A prophet shall God raise up unto you from among your brethren, like unto me.
38 This is he that was in the church in the wilderness with the angel that spake to him in the Mount Sinai, and with our fathers: who received living oracles to give unto us:
39 to whom our fathers would not be obedient, but thrust him from them, and turned back in their hearts unto Egypt, Acts Of The Apostles 7
"church" - ekklesia - Depends on when and by whom it was established and for what purpose.
Of course but He also said :18 And I also say unto thee, that thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my [assembly]; and the gates of Hades shall not prevail against it. Mt 16
Right?