Church camps and false professions

I challenge them to think about the choice that they have. I offer my time to counsel with them. I might have them close their eyes and raise their hands or commitmant cards.

If we go to a camp or conference. If somebody goes foward me or one of my people will talk personally to them and lead them in the right direction.

If I am doing a conference, I have youth ministers looking for signs in their kids. I use commitmant cards and I make sure the right person gets the cards.

You have to rely on the Holy Spirit to prick hearts. You have to let kids make the move.

 

Patrick,

Sounds like most of the alter calls I have seen. Only you stop short of "come forward."

 

I spend time with my kids helping them understand what they are doing. I don't use a public prayer. I ask a lot of questions.

Do you understand?

Are you a sinner?

Etc. I want to counsel with them one on one and make sure they are for real. It takes pressure of them. What will my friends think? stuff like that. It has worked well for my ministry.

 

Coincidence - I'm directing an Associational High-Schooler's Camp starting on Thursday and going through Sunday morning - so they can get to church on time!

We do present an altar call - if that is meaningful to the individual to come forward. But the invitation is to all - even to those who have no idea what "going forward" is. We simply state that if God has brought them to the point of any decision, they be brave enough to follow Him, and that we're available to help them through.

There has never been - nor to I intend to begin - the kind of pressure that I have seen in some places during invitation. Instead, it's an open invitation to respond where they are or at the altar if it would be meaningful for them to do so.

We do ask, however, that if someone is laboring over some decision that they make it known to their counselor, so we can assist when needed, and definetely to pray for them or with them.

 

I have been in many meetings (camp and otherwise) where there was so much pressure to go forward that my wife and I were only 2 of 10 or 12 out of 2or 3 hundred that did not end up in the front of the church. Other times, because we were part of the church staff, we were compelled to go forward.

How do we turn the tide on this ridiculousness?

 

Wow Loren. That is kind of creepy.

 

I remember saying the "sinners prayer" as a kid in AWANAS, and doing it a few more times during VBS or Summer Camp, but it wasn't until I was 17 years old (at Summer Camp) that I responded to the Holy Spirit's conviction and experienced the "godly sorrow" that "worketh repentance to salvation not to be repented of". It was then that I repented of my sins, turning from my sin and self, and accepted Jesus Christ as my Lord and Saviour.

Having said that I still think Summer Camp is a great way to share the gospel with and help disciple kids, but I thing the biggest problem with Summer Camp, AWANA, VBS, Sunday School, etc. is that there is not enough focus on repentance, but simply using the fear of going to hell to "scare" kids into saying a sinner's prayer.

If you introduce someone to Jesus Christ, you don't have to scare them away from hell, as they will be drawn to the love of Christ!

 

AMEN!

 

AMEN! </font>[/QUOTE]But telling them that God hates most of mankind (as Calvinists believe) would drive them away from Christ eh? So I agree with you.

 

Look at this from a little bit different perspective. I agree with a lot of what's been said about high pressure alter calls. But that's only part of the problem when it comes to repeat professions, and there are a ton of those in every camp I've been part of.

The problem is not just with the camp's alter call, but it also lies in the fact that we are not getting the job done when it comes to discipleship. Kids that have made a genuine profession have not been able to lock that down in their mind due to not being taught. Some of that is the fault of the church, some of it is beyond their control. For example: We held our association camp 2 weeks ago. There was a young man who came as a guest of one of our youth. He has visited our church once or twice, but would not be considered a regular attender. The 3rd night of camp he made a profession of faith in Christ and told me that he wanted to be baptized. His parents are not involved in church at all and are not supportive of his involvement at all. We will do everything we can to get him plugged in, but honestly, I'd say that it's a long shot that we'll even get to baptize him, let alone make a real disciple of him. I'm guessing that over the next year he'll visit us 10 times or less, and if he goes to camp next year I wouldn't be surprised to see him make another profession. Not because the first one wasn't real, but because we weren't able to give him the Biblical grounding that will make him understand that he is secure in his faith.

And you can bet, even if his profession this year is real, if he makes another one later, some preacher will rise up and crow about winning him to the Lord. Guess that comes with the territory.

It's kinda like the parable Jesus told about sowing seeds, some on hard ground, some on fertile ground, some on shallow ground. Some camp professions are redos that are not necessary, some are responses to the intense pressure, but doubless hundreds are genuine conversions, and those make camp worth the effort, even if we don't get it exactly perfect every time.

 

I spend a week every summer as a counsellor at a Bible Camp. Last year, one of the kids from my cabin came forward after a message, so I dealt with him personally. I showed him the plan of salvation, and he nodded that he understood everything, but I just wasn't sure that he was really understanding. I probably could have gotten him to repeat anything after me, but that wouldn't have been a decision. I told him to think about what I had said and that he could talk to me again whenever he wanted, and I sent him to the next activity.

 

Actually, it's the other way around. Man hates God and is an enemy to Him. It's only by God's grace that He draws us to Christ. Now, that my friend, is love. The alternative (Hell) is just what we deserve, but God chose mercy instead.

 

Maybe we need to address the camp issue in the context of the total local church program. While were have been problems with pressured invitations at camp, that could happen at church, an evangelistic meeting, or even a regular youth activity.

When a kids comes to camp and makes a decision for Christ we should use the camp situation to do as much follow-up as possible. I have worked at camps almost 40 years and have used that quality time away from normal friends and schedule to teach, disciple and help that new believer take the important first steps. My sons worked at camps during their college years and spent literally hours each week helping disciple the kids in their cabin. Then once we get that new Christian back home, the discipleship ministry should continue in the form of personal follow-up, etc. Maybe our problem is not camp, but local churches failure to practice discipleship.

My wife was saved at camp many years ago and it has been the foundation of a life of ministry for Christ. While there may have been pressured situations at camps, I try to focus on the many kids I have seen with changed lives because of camp!

 

Guitarpreacher: You wrote "some preacher will rise up and crow about winning him to the Lord. Guess that comes with the territory"

It reminds me of when a minister that I have great respect for was addressing questions from a search committee. The statement of, "How many people did you save last year," was asked.

He replied. "None. God saves people."

The questioner waved it off and said, "So how many did you LEAD to Christ."

The pastor said, "None. The Holy Spirit leads them. I just pray with them and Baptise them," and then he provided the number the committee member was obviously searching for.