Church leaders beliefs about Antichrist

[antiaging]

1. I know of no case where a beast is a king being symbolically represented rather than a nation.

2. 666 is the 'number of a man' -- numbers and letters in Latin were often the same (see the latest superbowl identifier)



In Daniel 8 the 2nd beast (goat in the case of Greece) is a nation and the first beast is also a nation (medo-persia according to the text of Dan 8).

3. There is no connection in Rev 13 to a "Single horn" doing anything.



True - in Dan 2 Nebuchadnezzar is Babylon and the head of gold is the entire Babylonian empire including the decendants of Nebuchadnezzar as they ruled in time.



That is the leap that you make without any Bible support.

The Bible does not allow us to consider a "beast" to be single person or even a single church/govt office (like vice president, general, etc).

Revelation 19:20 And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.

That scripture there shows the word beast being used for a single person. The false prophet working miracles before him is a direct reference to the second beast and first beast in Rev. 13.

 

[antiaging]

In Daniel 7 the little horn power (also detailed in Dan 8) arises after the split of the pagan Roman system into 10 major divisions and also AFTER the RCC manages to exert influence to destroy 3 of those major germanic-tribal divisions.

So if we include the details of Dan (and the 1260 years of the dark ages persecution he identifies in Dan 7) with the 1260 years of persecution and darkness John highlights in Rev 11-13 we see that the RCC fits the bill during the dark ages -

in Christ,

Bob

It says he shall subdue three kings. It does not say destroy them. Subdue can mean bring under his control. See a dictionary.

 

[BobRyan]

It does not matter whether subdue is "place in jail" or "destroy" or simply "trounce" -- in the case of pagan Rome - it splits into it's various divisions long after the time of Christ and long before today.

Whether or not you care to look at how the Papacy affected the divisions of Pagan Rome there is no question that historically the empire that subsumes all of what pagan Rome owned at one time -- and then far surpasses it -- is the Papacy EVEN by RC historian accounts.

If as you point out the focus is to start the clock ticking as soon as the Papacy is able to "subdue as in restrain" 3 of those divisions (three of the horns as Dan 7 identifies them) -- then fine you are still somewhere between the 4th and 7th century A.D. The empire (the beast) is Rome (in the initial phase pagan Rome). But it's split-- its division is clearly documented in history. Already happened.

in Christ,

Bob

 

[antiaging]

It does not matter whether subdue is "place in jail" or "destroy" or simply "trounce" -- in the case of pagan Rome - it splits into it's various divisions long after the time of Christ and long before today.

Whether or not you care to look at how the Papacy affected the divisions of Pagan Rome there is no question that historically the empire that subsumes all of what pagan Rome owned at one time -- and then far surpasses it -- is the Papacy EVEN by RC historian accounts.

If as you point out the focus is to start the clock ticking as soon as the Papacy is able to "subdue as in restrain" 3 of those divisions (three of the horns as Dan 7 identifies them) -- then fine you are still somewhere between the 4th and 7th century A.D. The empire (the beast) is Rome (in the initial phase pagan Rome). But it's split-- its division is clearly documented in history. Already happened.

in Christ,

Bob

The 3 kings that will be subdued are to be subdued by the future man, called antichrist by bible scholars, called the beast in Rev. 13, and the man of sin/son of perdition by Paul. The last one to occupy the papal position. He has not come yet, so he has not subdued (or brought under his control ) the three kings.

The 7 headed 10 horned beast represents three entities.
Rev. 12, it is Satan. (Crowns on heads seems to show Satan rules over the 7 kingdoms that opress Israel; Egypt, Assyria, Babylon, medo-persia,Greece, Rome, and revived rome made of the 10 nations controled by the Antichrist-a future kingdom)
Rev. 13 it is the man called antichrist by bible scholars. (Crowns on horns seems to show he rules over the 10 horns or 10 future nations, probably from the EU, that will make up the revived Roman empire.

Rev. 17, It is refering to the antichrist system or empire that Satan will rule over and the antichrist will rule over. The antichrist is going to be a man that is possesed and controled by Satan.

 

[grace56]

I posted this in a different thread so instead of retyping it I though I should post this here.

Last year we a had a wonderful Bible study with the book of Revelations. This is what our teacher said about the 666 of Revealtions.

The reference to 666 in Revelation 13 has generated more discussion than any other number in the book of Revelation. If 7 represents complete perfection, then 666 represents a complete falling short of perfection. Unlike English, Hebrew and Greek have numeric values attached to every letter and the people of John's day new that. Thus every "name" has a corresponding numeric equivalent. If you put the Greek word for beast (therion) into Hebrew, it adds up to 666. Interestingly, the numeric value of "Ceasar Nero" in Hebrew characters is also 666. Given that most of the events of Revelation likely ocurred during Nero's violent persecutions this number might represent him. This attachment of combinations of the number 6 with an enemy of God, a wicked ruler, or false worship has it's origin in the Old Testement ( see 1 Sam 17:7; 1 Kings 10:14 and Dan 3:1)


Grace56

 

[antiaging]

I posted this in a different thread so instead of retyping it I though I should post this here.

Last year we a had a wonderful Bible study with the book of Revelations. This is what our teacher said about the 666 of Revealtions.

The reference to 666 in Revelation 13 has generated more discussion than any other number in the book of Revelation. If 7 represents complete perfection, then 666 represents a complete falling short of perfection. Unlike English, Hebrew and Greek have numeric values attached to every letter and the people of John's day new that. Thus every "name" has a corresponding numeric equivalent. If you put the Greek word for beast (therion) into Hebrew, it adds up to 666. Interestingly, the numeric value of "Ceasar Nero" in Hebrew characters is also 666. Given that most of the events of Revelation likely ocurred during Nero's violent persecutions this number might represent him. This attachment of combinations of the number 6 with an enemy of God, a wicked ruler, or false worship has it's origin in the Old Testement ( see 1 Sam 17:7; 1 Kings 10:14 and Dan 3:1)


Grace56

Nero died in AD 68. John wrote of a future beast in the AD 90s about 30 years after Nero died so it cannot be Nero.
The word STUR in Hebrew is 666. Stur is chaldee (the babylonian language) for Saturn; the word that Satan is derived from. Rome was called Saturnian land and the Pope is the legitimate representative of Saturn.
http://www.biblebelievers.com/babylon/sect75.htm

See website above.

 

[grace56]

There is no proof when John wrote the book of the Revelation. Alot of scholars believe he wrote it before the fall of Jerusalem and I would have to agree with them. If Jerusalam and the Temple had aready fallen it would have been mentioned somewhere in the Bible so then you have conclude that the Bible was written before the temple fell. since the temple and Jerusalem fell around 70 Ad Revelation must have been written earlier then 70 AD.


Grace56

 

[grace56]

The mistake alot of churches and people make is what the book of Revelations is all about they want to make it a story about a secret rapture and then all about the evil pope. Here is the Introduction to a wonderful book by David Chilton called The Days of Vengence. You can read the book online or buy it it is a great refrence tool.

John makes it clear from the outset that his book
is a revelation, an unveiling or disclosure of God’s
purposes. It is not intended to be mysterious or
enigmatic; it is, emphatically, a revealing of its subject.
Specifically, it is the Revelation of Jesus Christ, which
God gave Him – in other words, a revelation mediated
by our Lord Himself (cf. Heb. 1:2), about the things
that must shortly take place. The Revelation,
therefore, is not concerned with either the scope of
world history or the end of the world, but with events
that were in the near future to John and his readers.
As we shall see throughout the commentary, the Book
of Revelation is a “covenant lawsuit,” prophesying the
outpouring of God’s wrath on Jerusalem. It is a
prophecy of the period known in Scripture as “the Last
Days,” meaning the last days of the covenantal nation
of Israel, the forty-year “generation” (Matt. 24:34)
between the Ascension of Christ (A.D. 30) and the
Fall of Jerusalem to the Romans (A.D. 70).1 It foretells
events that John expected his readers to see very
soon.

If you want to believe a fantasy that's your right.

Grace56

 

[antiaging]

The mistake alot of churches and people make is what the book of Revelations is all about they want to make it a story about a secret rapture and then all about the evil pope. Here is the Introduction to a wonderful book by David Chilton called The Days of Vengence. You can read the book online or buy it it is a great refrence tool.

John makes it clear from the outset that his book
is a revelation, an unveiling or disclosure of God’s
purposes. It is not intended to be mysterious or
enigmatic; it is, emphatically, a revealing of its subject.
Specifically, it is the Revelation of Jesus Christ, which
God gave Him – in other words, a revelation mediated
by our Lord Himself (cf. Heb. 1:2), about the things
that must shortly take place. The Revelation,
therefore, is not concerned with either the scope of
world history or the end of the world, but with events
that were in the near future to John and his readers.
As we shall see throughout the commentary, the Book
of Revelation is a “covenant lawsuit,” prophesying the
outpouring of God’s wrath on Jerusalem. It is a
prophecy of the period known in Scripture as “the Last
Days,” meaning the last days of the covenantal nation
of Israel, the forty-year “generation” (Matt. 24:34)
between the Ascension of Christ (A.D. 30) and the
Fall of Jerusalem to the Romans (A.D. 70).1 It foretells
events that John expected his readers to see very
soon.

If you want to believe a fantasy that's your right.

Grace56

The things mentioned in Revelation that must shortly take place are what was going to happen to the 7 churches in Asia.
After that it goes into future predictions about the final 7 years and the end time before and after Christ's Second Coming.

Revelation 3:22 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches.


Revelation 4:1 After this I looked, and, behold, a door was opened in heaven: and the first voice which I heard was as it were of a trumpet talking with me; which said, Come up hither, and I will shew thee things which must be hereafter.

After this I looked---In verse 4:1 it stops talking about the things that must shortly be done to the 7 churches, and switches to future events--the hereafter.

Martin Luther wrote in a footnote to Rev 13:15-18: "Spirit means / that it is active / and not a dead image / but that it has its rights and offices in its womb. These are six hundred and sixty and six years. So long the earthly papacy remains." During the Reformation, Martin Luther noted that "Benediktos" added up to 666 in Greek gematria, and he thought it might refer to a Pope named Benedict or to Benedictine monks.
Β ε ν ε δ ι κ τ ο σς TOTAL
2 5 50 5 4 10 20 300 70 200 666
Benedict xvi is the pope now.

I don't think the pope we have now is the antichrist, even though his chosen name adds up to 666, in Greek.
Research on Google in Wikipedia the many names from the past that added up to 666.

 

[Eliyahu]

Some say that Computer becomes 666 if we state it in hexa number system (not the decimal or binary number system).

A = 6, B=12, c=18, D=24, E=30....

add up the total for COMPUTER

Try and find 666.

 

[grace56]

I just hate to see Christians waiting for something that happen almost 2,000 years ago because they have mistaught. Don't get me wrong Jesus will come again to judge the living and the dead. We are in the millenium!

Grace56