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Church Membership?

Armchair Apologist

Well-Known Member
It is important for legal reasons

First - voting - who is allowed to vote?
Is a 5 year old who professed and then baptized be allowed to vote? Esp on a $200,000 loan from the bank
Should someone who is not attended in 5 years be allowed to vote?
The list can go on and on.
In the context of a congregational rule church, I agree 100%. You cannot have people coming in off the street attending a church business meeting and be able to vote on critical issues, bugeting, building projects, and so forth.
What do your State/Commonwealth laws require.
I believe that such laws take into account the ecclesiastical structure and expect you to act accordingly.
Churches of the Brethren typically believe that there is no church membership in the NT. Years ago I had a friend who was a Brethren missionary and didn't believe in membership. When they had a business meeting, whoever showed up could vote. I see tons of problems with that approach. What if someone wanted to take the church over? He could just gather enough friends to vote out the pastor and vote their man in.
I actually spent a few years in a non-denominational "Bible" church of which I believe had somewhat of a "Brethren" background. Their position was that one's continual and consistent attendance implies membership. They also employed an "eldership rule" with a plurality of elders moving upon matters only when there was unanimous consent of all the elders. Members did not vote on anything although they did often consult with them to see if they were on board; case in point being the building of a new auditorium. They put forth the plans for the building including the cost and then brought it to the membership who "voted" based upon their willingness to make financial "pledges" to this project and based upon the pledges they had received, they reevaluated and adjusted their plans accordingly. I actually appreciated the transparency I saw and it seemed as if the members of the church were actually more involved in the process than the large congregational rule IFB church across town that I had left where one often felt strong-armed and coerced to make commitments they probably shouldn't have been making and even though one had a "vote," you didn't dare go against the "vision" of the pastoral leadership or you would quickly find yourself on the outside looking in and castigated by other members to the point that it would be unbearable to remain - quite cultic truth be known. I didn't go against the leadership though; I kept my mouth shut but watching my family suffer, I knew God was calling me away from this mess!

Regarding this Non-Denom Church, I had mixed feelings regarding their "membership" seeing that accountability might be a challenge. The eldership (and other members) would have to be mindful of other "regular attenders" and such would often be assimilated into "Life Groups" that met during the week (in lieu of a mid-week Bible study) and this was an environment which fostered accountability and community. You would think that someone who stopped attending for whatever reason would likely get a visit or phone call but not something I was personally privy to. Despite the lack of a formal membership, I felt quite connected and a part of this congregation. I was also a regular member of the "worship team" so I guess this was another means in which I was connected.

In many respects, I saw this non-denom church having far more stability than many "congregational rule" Baptist churches but as I said, the (presumptive) members did not vote. Churches that do have membership rolls need to have strict standards for who is and how is one to remain on these rolls. One thing would be to periodically purge these rolls of any non-attenders who have not been seen or heard of in two months or so. I have heard of nightmare business meetings where "Members" who had not attended for years came around and started trouble when the congregation was facing some sort of critical decision or whatever! If you are all loosey-goosey on this "membership" roll, you will have the very same problems as a hypothetical congregation with no membership roll and of whom the "members" get to vote!

Gets quite convoluted hence this long, drawn out response (sorry!) but definitely not something of which to take lightly.
 
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Ascetic X

Well-Known Member
All of those are good things to do and could be incorporated into Bible studies or discipleship groups. One way to tell if a believer really has made a sincere commitment to the faith is by how often they show up on Sunday and are involved in mid-week activities. I still don't see why that requires a formal process.



But the same is true of those who do go through a formal process and become official church members. Nobody can look into a person's heart and discern what their true motives really are.

You, @Deacon, @John of Japan, and @Salty have made some good points and have given me some things to think about. There absolutely does need to be a mechanism in place that allows others to identify genuine spiritual fruitfulness and vote on church matters. If church membership is the best way to do that, I don't have a problem with it, but what I'm saying is that I don't think it necessarily has to be the only way it should be done.
If not a formal process, what do you suggest?

Just showing up for things is no evidence a person has made a commitment to the faith.
 

Kai

Active Member
If not a formal process, what do you suggest?

Just showing up for things is no evidence a person has made a commitment to the faith.

It's the pastor's responsibility to teach all that is expected of the flock. If I only showed up to church once every couple of months, then it would be obvious that I haven't fully submitted. Either way, it would be evident for all to see.

With or without a formal process, faithful members are still expected to be involved, and if the pastor is doing his job, then he should be holding them accountable.

I recognize that there are many churches that have determined that signing a covenant and being placed on a roll call is the best mechanism for all that. I can't necessarily say what would be better—I suppose it's a matter of personal preference since the Bible doesn't provide those specifications.
 
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Kai

Active Member
My church doesn't have a structured membership process in place, but I'm confident that our elders have taken the responsibility seriously of holding myself, as well as my fellow members, to the highest standards of accountability regardless.
 

Salty

20,000 Posts Club
Administrator
My church doesn't have a structured membership process in place, but I'm confident that our elders have taken the responsibility seriously of holding myself, as well as my fellow members, to the highest standards of accountability regardless.
So, how does one become a member?
 

Kai

Active Member
So, how does one become a member?

I don't think it would make a difference. Our elders have held us accountable to the same standards as other churches that do have church membership.

I'm not necessarily opposed to having it implemented at some point.
 
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Salty

20,000 Posts Club
Administrator
I don't think it would make a difference. Our elders have held us accountable to the same standards as other churches that do have church membership.

I'm not necessarily opposed to having it implemented at some point.
So if t he first time I visit the church, and they are having a business meeting, I can vote on the church business?
 

Kai

Active Member
So if t he first time I visit the church, and they are having a business meeting, I can vote on the church business?

I actually inquired with my church about this. Our elders and deacons are typically appointed to handle administrative, financial, and pastoral care needs.
 

Kai

Active Member
A) That is NOT the job of deacons!

Why do they need to be excluded from those tasks? The primary role of a deacon is to serve the physical, material, and logistical needs of the church so that spiritual leaders can focus on prayer and the ministry of the Word. It also eliminates the problem of new members being allowed to cast votes.

B) So what does the congregation vote on?

I suppose we don't have a traditional congregational voting process. We trust the judgement of our elders and deacons to make the proper policy and budget decisions.
 
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Ascetic X

Well-Known Member
Why do they need to be excluded from those tasks? The primary role of a deacon is to serve the physical, material, and logistical needs of the church so that spiritual leaders can focus on prayer and the ministry of the Word. It also eliminates the problem of new members being allowed to cast votes.



I suppose we don't have a traditional congregational voting process. We trust the judgement of our elders and deacons to make the proper policy and budget decisions.
Sounds dictatorial.

Your church seems to not have members, but only attendees, and they have no input into church policies or decisions.

Is this a Baptist church?
 

Salty

20,000 Posts Club
Administrator
Sounds dictatorial.

Your church seems to not have members, but only attendees, and they have no input into church policies or decisions.

Is this a Baptist church?
dont want to get too far off OP - but a mega-church - say 5,ooo members - I would agree it would be hard to have a congregational vote!
 

Armchair Apologist

Well-Known Member
A) That is NOT the job of deacons!

B) So what does the congregation vote on?
In the church I attended in the early/mid 2000s, the congregation did not vote at all. The Elders made all of the administrative decisions by unanimous consent (every elder had to be in agreement). Believe it or not, it was also quite far from being "dictatorial" in nature! They respected the (presumptive) membership's individual soul liberty and were very much in tune with where they believed the membership were on pertinent matters and acted accordingly.

In other words, it works for them and last I heard, the church is still doing quite well.
 

Armchair Apologist

Well-Known Member
Sounds dictatorial.

Your church seems to not have members, but only attendees, and they have no input into church policies or decisions.

Is this a Baptist church?
As I said, the congregational rule IFB "Mega-Church" was far more "dictatorial" than the Eldership Rule church I later found myself in. There are a number of factors one must consider I guess. One of the things that makes it work is that the elders are quite approachable and down to earth - a "regular member" would most certainly be heard!

As I responded to Salty, it may not be for everyone but whatever they are doing works quite well for this congregation and they are quite stable with members who have been there for decades. I have not been there in over 20 years but if I were to pay them a visit, I am certain I would find a good number of old friends still there!
 

Foxmeister

Active Member
So if t he first time I visit the church, and they are having a business meeting, I can vote on the church business?
Not at my church. To be a member one must become a member by one of the following: public profession of faith followed with baptism by submersion, baptism once saved and profession of faith, transfer of membership from another Baptist church, and by statement of faith if you have already been baptized. Our business meetings are held in the afternoon following services and only members are allowed to vote.

My church is with the SBC and we have deacons but no elders. Deacons are servant leaders who care for the physical, logistical, and relational needs of the congregation so that the pastor can focus on spiritual leadership, prayer, and the ministry of the Word.
 
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