Church Membership

[ForumChaplain]

Originally posted by Doc Yankum:
Well Chappie. I got in on this thread late and enjoyed the exchange between you and some of the others. Since it has been a few days since you posted, I hope you've had time to cool off and not talk to me as you did to Voice and Ernie. Boy, you sure can unload when riled. Seriously, in a previous post (back in August I think) you said

"I believe that the doors to "Christs" church must remain open to even the worst of sinners."

My question to you--Do you mean saved sinners or unsaved sinners?
BTW, I notice on your profile you are a member of a G.N.B. Missionary Baptist Church. I am also a member of a MIssionary Baptist Church, but I am unfamilar with G.N.B. Can you enlighten me?

Sorry bout that DoC.
I'm better now. I had to increase the dossage on my medication. {Reyarp, three times a day}

You said:
My question to you--Do you mean saved sinners or unsaved sinners?

Great question: Never gave it much thought. But if you tell me how to discern the difference between the two, I will give it some thought.

Yet, at present, not for love nor money; I cannot tell the difference. We all can look pretty holy for a few hours on Sunday, but you ought to see some of the holiest of holies on Friday night, Saturday night. Man you ought to see some of the preachers even Sunday after service.

How can we tell who is saved and who is not? But i can, without a doubt, tell you if a person is a sinner or not. Show me god's rules for admissions of members and I will apply them. But pastor Slims rules, I would have to know what Pastor slim was doing before he became a preacher....

Secret stuff, between you and me. Everybody else, do not read any further.........

If all/any of the rules purposed were enforced when I first gave my life to Christ, the only Church that would have accepted me would be Bar Stool Missionary Baptist Church; Reverend I.W Harper, Pastor. With Deacon Chevas Regal, Bud Light, Miller Gold and Brother Colt Forty Five on the Deacon Board.

You don't want to know who the Chior Director, and head of the mothers and usher boards were. God had already changed my life before i got to the church. The way I see it, whither I was saved or not was none of their business. They could not save me. The way i saw it, it was not even their church. I had already made my peace with the one that would save me.... It's his church....

I believe that the Pastor that remembers where he was when God picked him up, will err on the side of salvation for all.

Pride causes us to do things in the name of God, that God has not called us to do in his name...

Aaah, need more medication, it is great stuff, it works for whatever ails ya....

[ September 18, 2002, 08:45 PM: Message edited by: Chappie ]

 

[Grammy1013]

Originally posted by Doc Yankum:

Grammy, what you are talking about is a universal, invisible church instead of a local, visible body. The universal church theory is something that baptists had never held to. At least the others posting on this fracas purport to be baptist. Sometimes it is difficult to tell if they are from their positions.

Well, then WHO do Baptists think "the church" is when it's spoken of in the bible?

 

[Daniel David]

Grammy1013, only a sect of Baptists have taught "local church" only doctrine. As has already been pointed out, many taught the "invisible church" doctrine.

Some people get a teaching and think that they are the only true representatives of that view.

Out like hijacking the name Baptist for personal reasons.

 

[Abiyah]

Up front, baptism in my belief is different from
that of the churches, but I am quite familiar with
church belief on baptism. What has confused
me on this board is this: are people being bap-
tized into a church or into our Lord? If they
are being baptized into a church, I can under-
stand baptizm not being accepted from congre-
gation to congregation, but if you are being
baptized into the Lord or into the Lord's death,
as I have read, why be rebaptized at a new
church? A different Lord? A different death?
I don't understand.

 

[Mrs KJV]

If they are coming from a church that teaches heresy, then it is a good possiblity they are not serving the same Lord. This would be an antichrist spirit. The church is the bride and Christ is the groom. When they unite they have to be in one accord. If they come from a church that is not teaching God's word they can not be married to Christ. This is why they need rebaptized. Just as a man and woman become one so does Christ and his church.

 

[Johnv]

If we banned all sinful people from our churches, our churches would be empty.

This is a no-brainer. The woman and her children would be accepted into the church as a family. The boyfriend would be accepted into the church as an individual.

It wouldnt be any different than if two engaged people with different addresses were to become members on the same Sunday morning.

Hopefully, the living a life in the church will eventually cause them to change their living arrangements in to something more appropriate (either separate addresses or a wedding).

 

[Ernie Brazee]

One becomes a church member when baptized in the likeness of Christ. die to the flesh, bury the fles and rise agin in the newness of life in Christ, but many here don't understand baptism as they have never buried the old man. He still rules the life!

Romans 6

 

[Pastork]

Hi everbody!

I just thought I would contribute some thoughts to the discussion based upon my own church's practice.

We do not have people "come forward" who desire to be members of the church. The elders meet with the person and examine him, looking for a credible profession of faith and agreement with the churches doctrinal statement. If we are satisfied, we then submit the person's name to the congregation at our quarterly business meeting with our recommendation. If, in the process of interviewing the person, red flags begin to wave as to his relationship with his previous church, we postpone any further action until we have a chance to speak with his former pastor. That is usually left up to me. If the person was under legitimate church discipline at his previous church, we honor that by not allowing him into membership at our church.

I will give you an example of one instance where we followed up with the disciplinary action of another church so as to avoid misunderstanding as to what I mean. A man once came to our church from another Baptist church in town. The red flags started going up for me right away as I heard the many negative things he had to say about his former church (and pastor) and as he explained to me that he had been to several other churches recently, but that his wife and children were still going to the Baptist church where he had last been a member. Well, I called the previous pastor and discovered that he had been disciplined for constantly causing strife in the church through gossip, etc. He also had been treating his wife very badly and refused any counsel from the church leadership on the matter. We then discussed the matter further with the man and were convinced that he was in the wrong. We thus informed him that he was welcome to attend worship with us without being allowed to participate in the Lord's Supper and with the understanding that he and I were going to work on repairing the broken relationship with his former church and with his wife. We also made it clear to him that our goal was ultimately to help him to go back to his church to publicly repent there and ask the congregation to forgive him for all the strife he had caused through his gossiping and lying. We desired that he then seek readmittance to membership there with his wife and submit to marital counseling with the pastor of that church. Well, after a few weeks he decided he did not wish to continue counseling with me about the issue and promptly left for yet another church. I tried to find which one so I could call that pastor and enlist his further assistance in trying to help the man, but I was unable to discover where he went. He must have gone out of town somewhere. I pray he eventually did repent and make things right.

In my opinion, it would have been very unloving to the man to simply allow him into membership at our church without taking seriously the the fact that he had been rightly disciplined under the authority of Christ. The discipline he was under was not simply the "opinion" of that church, it was the authority of the Christ, the Head of the Church, being exercised as He said it should be. After outlining the steps to church discipline in Matt.18:15-17, Jesus went on to say "Assuredly, I say to you, whatever you bind on earth will be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth will be loosed in heaven. Again I say to you that if two of you agree on earth concerning anything that they ask, it will be done for them by my Father in heaven. For where two or three are gathered in My name, I am there in the midst of them" (vs.18-20). Thus the man we dealt with needed to be made to see the seriousness of his situation. He needed to understand the spiritual peril he was under. It may seem loving to some people to ignore all that, but I think it is cruel.

Pastork

[ September 25, 2002, 12:19 PM: Message edited by: Pastork ]

 

[Abiyah]

Pastork --

I like what you have written. I think you follow a
very good policy.

I have mentioned here, in several posts, my
concerns and personal experiences with
excommunication and consequently joining
another congregation. Following an afternoon
teaching, I wrote a letter to my present pastor,
relaying the incidents leading up to my expul-
sion and sent a cc of the letter to my old
church's headquarters.

Suppose you were my pastor; you received the
letter, wrote to my old church, and got a res-
ponse saying that what I wrote did happen, but
I had misunderstood the pastor. (This is basically
the response I expect, if any.) Would you allow
me, then, to join your church, or would Ii be sent
to my old pastor to straighten thinigs out and
repatriate myself to that church through public
testimony that I was wrong?

8o) I am not trying to put you on the spot; I am
merely completely puzzled, perplexed, and con-
founded (!!!) by this whole membership thing and
how it works!!!

You see, I could not go back and join that church,
nor could I stand and honestly say I was wrong--
that would be, for me, a lie! I was so right that it
STINKS! But everyone there, including my own
daughter, has been told that I was wrong, that I
lied, etc. But, then, they said that about everyone
who left---an up and coming young minister, the
youth pastor, and anyone else that they spoke to
me about.

 

[Pastork]

Abiyah,

Notice that I confirmed in the example I gave that it was a proper instance of church discipline, but from your posts it does not seem to me that such was the case with you. I suspect I would have spoken with your previous pastor and discovered a legalistic attitude that I would have advised you to get away from in the first place! In some situations I wouldn't bother to call the pastor if the person seemed very credible and I already knew the church to be an aberrant one. At any rate, I usually only call the previous pastor if I am suspicious of the person's story for some reason.

As far as my suggesting to the man in the example that he seek to renew his membership at his previous church, this was done due to the nature of the situation. But even then, if things had gone well and he and his wife decided God was calling them to join our congregation, I would not have objected so long as things had been appropriately settled at his previous church and he could leave on good terms. Jesus is Lord of the Church, and He can shuffle us around according to His own plans if He wishes. He knows where each part of the body is strong or weak in a given community and may move His sheep around accordingly. Thus there can be very good reasons for someone to leave my congregation to go join another in town without it becoming an issue for some kind of confrontation. I suspect the church you left would not have felt this way?

Pastork

[ September 25, 2002, 02:29 PM: Message edited by: Pastork ]

 

[Abiyah]

Oh, no. I was warned that they are the only ones
with the "Whole truth," and leaving meant that
I was leaving the truth for a "lesser gospel." All
my life, I was warned that if I left, I would end up
in Hell and taking my children with me. Toward
the end, they told me that of many of those who
left, their children left our God, and they ended
up church-hoppping or quitting altogether. One
pastor said to my husband that he couldn't
understand why those who left expressed that
they had found so much freedomm since leav-
ing. It was a baited statement, but MtnWalker
knew it and did not answer.

 

[ForumChaplain]

Originally posted by Pastork:
Abiyah,

Notice that I confirmed in the example I gave that it was a proper instance of church discipline, but from your posts it does not seem to me that such was the case with you. I suspect I would have spoken with your previous pastor and discovered a legalistic attitude that I would have advised you to get away from in the first place! In some situations I wouldn't bother to call the pastor if the person seemed very credible and I already knew the church to be an aberrant one. At any rate, I usually only call the previous pastor if I am suspicious of the person's story for some reason.

As far as my suggesting to the man in the example that he seek to renew his membership at his previous church, this was done due to the nature of the situation. But even then, if things had gone well and he and his wife decided God was calling them to join our congregation, I would not have objected so long as things had been appropriately settled at his previous church and he could leave on good terms. Jesus is Lord of the Church, and He can shuffle us around according to His own plans if He wishes. He knows where each part of the body is strong or weak in a given community and may move His sheep around accordingly. Thus there can be very good reasons for someone to leave my congregation to go join another in town without it becoming an issue for some kind of confrontation. I suspect the church you left would not have felt this way?

Pastork

An excellent attitude if I may say so myself, a pastor that is willing to get intimately involved with candidates for his church is what I call a pastor.

I just believe that when we gather information on a perspective member it should be used to help reconcile that person to the church. If the person persists, then "hasta luego".

But how can we help, if that person is rejected at the front door. If they are accepted and continue in said offences, now the pastor has personal experience on which to evaluate his decision.

I do not have a problem with a pastor that suggest that an unrulely member "move on".

I, personally would not deny a perspective member membership based on a negative letter unless I knew the pastor of that church and was satisfied in my own assessment of the integrity of the church.

[ September 28, 2002, 03:05 PM: Message edited by: Chappie ]

 

[KenH]

Originally posted by Chappie:
I'm better now. I had to increase the dossage on my medication. {Reyarp, three times a day}

"Reyarp"? Is that prayer spelled backward or something else?

Ken

[ September 27, 2002, 11:49 PM: Message edited by: Ken Hamilton ]

 

[ForumChaplain]

Originally posted by Ken Hamilton:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Chappie:
I'm better now. I had to increase the dossage on my medication. {Reyarp, three times a day}

"Reyarp"? Is that prayer spelled backward or something else?

Ken</font>[/QUOTE]It is prayer spelled backwards.....