Church of Christ and Baptism

[DHK]

I am not so sure.

Philip was happy with -- as far as man may know -- the eunuch's status before the face of God simply having become a believer.
But no, an ignorant newcomer must teach him how to baptise, as if that which he had received without any of his own works, wasn't good enough.
I think the eunuch was an ungrateful and arrogant person taking advantage, who insisted on more and better than all Christians were contented with.

For me it is just the same as John Wesley who wasn't satisfied with the regenerating power of the Holy Spirit having given him faith, but who as it were had to coerce the Holy Spirit to bestow on him better gifts than 'just' faith and forgiveness.

Baptism "IN THE NAME" is not good enough; it leaves man's 'part' out. Which is where the eunuch took over the role of master of his own destiny.

Your approach to the plain teaching of the Scripture is very sad indeed.

Matthew 3:5 Then went out to him Jerusalem, and all Judaea, and all the region round about Jordan,
6 And were baptized of him in Jordan, confessing their sins.
--Where was John the Baptist baptizing the multitudes that came to him?
Why?

He answers that question himself right here:
Matthew 3:11 I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance:...
--With what element did he use to baptize?

Matthew 3:13 Then cometh Jesus from Galilee to Jordan unto John, to be baptized of him.
Matthew 3:16 And Jesus, when he was baptized, went up straightway out of the water: and, lo, the heavens were opened unto him, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove, and lighting upon him:
--Was Jesus also baptized by John?
--Was water used?
Should we not follow the example of Jesus?

 

[Gerhard Ebersoehn]

Your approach to the plain teaching of the Scripture is very sad indeed.

Matthew 3:5 Then went out to him Jerusalem, and all Judaea, and all the region round about Jordan,
6 And were baptized of him in Jordan, confessing their sins.
--Where was John the Baptist baptizing the multitudes that came to him?
Why?

He answers that question himself right here:
Matthew 3:11 I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance:...
--With what element did he use to baptize?

Matthew 3:13 Then cometh Jesus from Galilee to Jordan unto John, to be baptized of him.
Matthew 3:16 And Jesus, when he was baptized, went up straightway out of the water: and, lo, the heavens were opened unto him, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove, and lighting upon him:
--Was Jesus also baptized by John?
--Was water used?
Should we not follow the example of Jesus?

--Was Jesus also baptized by John?

Yes. But did Jesus baptise? Not with water!

--Was water used?

By John, yes. But used John The Name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit to baptise in (or with)? No!

<<Should we not follow the example of Jesus?>>

Yes. But it is not the truly relevant question. We SHOULD ACCEPT his example in our place; not REPLACE it with our replica of his example.

Like Jesus’ example by Crucifixion; or Resurrection; or whatever.
Righteousness is BY FAITH IN Christ; not IN works --- IN our works.

But I have already said too much.

I have in my experience of life been taught (I believe by God), that I shall have to make peace with water baptism as part and parcel of the Christian Faith --- Christian Faith WHICH IS MUCH BIGGER than water baptism.
And I have made that peace with myself and with the Church of Jesus Christ which I DESPITE MY DIFFERENCES with it, love above all earthly things; and LOVE, God knows, even though the love is not mutual.

In other words, THOUGH the Church has cast me out in part because of water baptism, I have learned to forgive the Church as far as it is concerned.

So peace, brother in Christ, DHK, Peace

 

[DHK]

--Was Jesus also baptized by John?

Yes. But did Jesus baptise? Not with water!

--Was water used?

Yes water was used. It was used by Jesus and his disciples.
John 3:22 After these things came Jesus and his disciples into the land of Judaea; and there he tarried with them, and baptized.
23 And John also was baptizing in AEnon near to Salim, because there was much water there: and they came, and were baptized.
--They were both baptizing in a place where there was much water. The word baptize, Baptidzo, means "immerse," and indicates an immersion into water. That is what both Christ and his disciples, and John were doing. They were immersing others into the water.

By John, yes. But used John The Name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit to baptise in (or with)? No!

The text doesn't say what "formula" Jesus used, and it is not important.

<<Should we not follow the example of Jesus?>>

Yes. But it is not the truly relevant question. We SHOULD ACCEPT his example in our place; not REPLACE it with our replica of his example.

We should follow his example as per his command in the Great Commission.
Go, disciple, baptize, teach. These commands are given to the disciples. The disciples can only baptize with water.
The baptism of the Holy Spirit is an action of God Himself. It is not relevant to the Great Commission.

Like Jesus’ example by Crucifixion; or Resurrection; or whatever.
Righteousness is BY FAITH IN Christ; not IN works --- IN our works.

We are justified by faith and faith alone.
Baptism is the first step of obedience after one is justified. It has nothing to do with salvation.

 

[Yeshua1]

Yes water was used. It was used by Jesus and his disciples.
John 3:22 After these things came Jesus and his disciples into the land of Judaea; and there he tarried with them, and baptized.
23 And John also was baptizing in AEnon near to Salim, because there was much water there: and they came, and were baptized.
--They were both baptizing in a place where there was much water. The word baptize, Baptidzo, means "immerse," and indicates an immersion into water. That is what both Christ and his disciples, and John were doing. They were immersing others into the water.

The text doesn't say what "formula" Jesus used, and it is not important.

We should follow his example as per his command in the Great Commission.
Go, disciple, baptize, teach. These commands are given to the disciples. The disciples can only baptize with water.
The baptism of the Holy Spirit is an action of God Himself. It is not relevant to the Great Commission.

We are justified by faith and faith alone.
Baptism is the first step of obedience after one is justified. It has nothing to do with salvation.

Actuall, the death and resurrection of Jesus is what justifiies sinners, as that made atonement to the Father, while faith is meansGod uses to apply that towards us!

 

[DHK]

Actuall, the death and resurrection of Jesus is what justifiies sinners, as that made atonement to the Father, while faith is meansGod uses to apply that towards us!

Romans 5:1 Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ:

No need to argue with Scripture!

 

[Yeshua1]

Romans 5:1 Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ:

No need to argue with Scripture!

not arguing, but faith is means to access the grace tht saves us, as its the object of the faith who saves, jesus christ, and His death upon the Cross!

 

[Gerhard Ebersoehn]

Yes water was used. It was used by Jesus and his disciples.

DHK, Go read your Bible again. IT STATES THERE: "Jesus did NOT baptise" ... and YOU, know it!

It is one thing to make peace with water-baptism; it is another matter to make peace with covert handling of the Scriptures.

Yes, I accuse you, DHK, of covert handling of the Scriptures, HERE.

 

[The Biblicist]

DHK, Go read your Bible again. IT STATES THERE: "Jesus did NOT baptise" ... and YOU, know it!

It is one thing to make peace with water-baptism; it is another matter to make peace with covert handling of the Scriptures.

Yes, I accuse you, DHK, of covert handling of the Scriptures, HERE.

Gerhard, it is you that needs to read the Bible again, as the very text you are referring to (Jn. 4:1-2) does say Jesus baptized, but then explains that these baptisms were administered through his disciples under his approved supervision.

1 ¶ When therefore the Lord knew how the Pharisees had heard that Jesus made and baptized more disciples than John,
2 (Though Jesus himself baptized not, but his disciples,)