Church of Christ (and the like): evangelical or heretical?

[Thomas Helwys]

We have had a few from the CoC join the board and post in the Other Religions Forum, where I spend a great deal of my time.

When I was saved, it was through an interdenominational group that worked on the campuses of universities. They never stressed the importance of local churches or baptism. After salvation, and graduation I worked in a rural area where there was no opportunity to go to a local church of any kind. I wasn't baptized until two years after I was saved.

I put the question this CoC member: "If I had died within that two year period, would I have gone to heaven?" IOW, do you consider me saved?
He answered that he didn't consider me saved then, nor does he now.

They believe that baptism is an integral part of their salvation. Without baptism one cannot be saved. Furthermore, I wasn't saved because I wasn't baptized by a CoC pastor. The baptizer has to be the right person. Thus in their eyes, because I haven't been baptized by their cult I am still not saved.

Theirs is a religion of works, which cannot save. If one gets saved it is in spite of the doctrine taught, not because of it. Putting one's trust in baptism cannot save. Baptismal regeneration in the CoC is just as much heresy as it is in the RCC.

Wow, talk about exclusive! I knew the CoC was exclusive, but this is amazing!

 

[Mexdeaf]

Any group or person that teaches a "Jesus plus" salvation is heretical.

 

[RLBosley]

I have no personal experience with CoC but from my understanding they would be heretics.

Wow, talk about exclusive! I knew the CoC was exclusive, but this is amazing!

Some Baptists are just as bad. The pastor at church my wife and I used to attend said that anyone baptized in a non-baptist church hasn't had a legitimate baptism (even if by immersion) and ought to be re baptized. that really concerned my wife since she was baptized in non-denom church.
We left a month or two later

 

[DHK]

I have no personal experience with CoC but from my understanding they would be heretics.



Some Baptists are just as bad. The pastor at church my wife and I used to attend said that anyone baptized in a non-baptist church hasn't had a legitimate baptism (even if by immersion) and ought to be re baptized. that really concerned my wife since she was baptized in non-denom church.
We left a month or two later

Those are policies set by individual churches and they are independent one of another. They have their reasons. But the reason certainly isn't a requirement for salvation. No Baptist church believes that.

 

[RLBosley]

Those are policies set by individual churches and they are independent one of another. They have their reasons. But the reason certainly isn't a requirement for salvation. No Baptist church believes that.

Agreed. That's why I specified "some". I was just talking about the exclusiveness of only recognizing "their" baptism. Sorry if that was confusing.

 

[saturneptune]

Hard to Classify

The CofC has always been hard to place among the different denominations. Their origins are very murky and recent, such as the LDS. They did not come out of the Reformation. They are not heretical in the same manner as the Catholics, JWs, or Mormons. They really just do not fit anywhere.

They are autonomous like us. At first glance, it seems they treat Christ for Who He is. but really, they do not. They preach a different Gospel. It is just a different Gospel unlike the Catholic, JW, or Mormon. However, preaching a different Gospel is preachng a different Gospel. Anything that differs from salvation by grace through faith only is in grevious error.

There doctrine on baptism is very dangerous. I would rather be sprinkled and believe that my Baptism was a sign of faith in Christ after salvation, than be immersed and depend on baptism for my salvation. In addition, they have odd practices, such as not using an organ or accompanying instuments. I asked one why, and they responded, did they have instruments in the first century. I think they did, as they did in some of the Psalms. The rule shows how shallow they are. Even if there were no instruments, they also did not have electricity or printed bulletins. Also, no caffine. Now that really makes a lot of sense. No coke but 7up is ok.

Overall, it is a very dangerous organization.

 

[ryarn]

I do not think they are heretical, i just think that they don't realize that they had a real baptism when they got saved excepting CHRIST as SAVIOUR. They are going to be suprised when they get there.:thumbs:
If in thier heart they think that water baptism saved them instead of repenting that they are a sinner and JESUS died for thier sins only then they are sadly mistaken.
(i pushed thr wrong button on the poll, so the poll is wrong)

 

[kyredneck]

The Bible tells us to be baptized in the names of the Father the Son and the Holy Spirit. Peter tells us What Baptism is for, and compares it to the saving of Noah by water;
1Pe 3:20 Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.
1Pe 3:21 The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ….

It isn't that I believe baptism will save but that Peter obviously felt that it has Salvific value....

This doesn't make sense: You don't beleive it saves, but you believe that Peter did feel that it has salvific value? Assuming you would want to agree with Peter, your statement doesn't make sense.....

A problem here is that you all willy nilly with a broad brush make ‘sozo’ [saved] to always mean the acquisition of eternal life, i.e. the birth from above, regeneration. This is error. ‘Saved’ can nearly always be translated simply as ‘delivered’, ‘salvation’ as deliverance’, and this deliverance is nearly always intended in the temporal sense not the eternal.

Remember that Peter was the apostle to the circumcision and his audience was [Christian] Jews of ‘that generation’ on which the ‘wrath to come’ was to happen:

But when he saw many of the Pharisees and Sadducees coming to his baptism, he said unto them, Ye offspring of vipers, who warned you to flee from the wrath to come? Mt 3:7

He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that disbelieveth shall be condemned. Mk 16:16

40 And with many other words he testified, and exhorted them, saying, Save yourselves from this crooked generation.
41 They then that received his word were baptized: and there were added unto them in that day about three thousand souls. Acts 2

The only way for those Jews of 'that generation' to be delivered [saved] from the wrath to come and avoid bringing the curses of Lev 26/Dt 28 upon themselves and their progeny was to profess Christ as LORD, and water baptism was an integral part of that profession.

 

[ryarn]

I guess thats why they call you Primitive Baptists :smilewinkgrin:

 

[convicted1]

We have had a few from the CoC join the board and post in the Other Religions Forum, where I spend a great deal of my time.

When I was saved, it was through an interdenominational group that worked on the campuses of universities. They never stressed the importance of local churches or baptism. After salvation, and graduation I worked in a rural area where there was no opportunity to go to a local church of any kind. I wasn't baptized until two years after I was saved.

I put the question this CoC member: "If I had died within that two year period, would I have gone to heaven?" IOW, do you consider me saved?
He answered that he didn't consider me saved then, nor does he now.

They believe that baptism is an integral part of their salvation. Without baptism one cannot be saved. Furthermore, I wasn't saved because I wasn't baptized by a CoC pastor. The baptizer has to be the right person. Thus in their eyes, because I haven't been baptized by their cult I am still not saved.

Theirs is a religion of works, which cannot save. If one gets saved it is in spite of the doctrine taught, not because of it. Putting one's trust in baptism cannot save. Baptismal regeneration in the CoC is just as much heresy as it is in the RCC.

This is the "strand" of CoC churches that I am surrounded by. They don't know, of fail to believe, that they were called, at one time, Campbellites. :tonofbricks:

 

[Yeshua1]

With the wave of evangelicals being so moved by Duck Dynasty (I enjoy the show but not b/c of its "Christian" values), I wanted to get some opinions.

Since these guys are hard core into the CoC, and since their doctrinal emphasis is baptism (good emphasis but with a misplaced theological understanding), should we consider this branch evangelical (or orthodox for that matter) or heretical.

Honestly, I have a hard time calling them evangelical and not heretical considering their view of the necessity of baptism for salvation. It seems like "another gospel" to me.

What say you?

they add another work to the grace of god, namely, one MUST be water baptized in order to "complete/secure" salvation, so they indeed hold to another gospel!

Not saying many are not saved despite that, but their Gospel is NOT one Jesus/paul taught!

 

[John I Morris]

Baptism has no value toward salvation at all. You are either saved by grace through faith in Christ alone or not. It is not by the tub of water but by thge blood of Christ that we are redeemed. Make no mistake about it. Galatians 2:8-9, it is a gift. Hebrews 11:1, faith cannot be seen, baptism can be seen.

 

[kyredneck]

This is the "strand" of CoC churches that I am surrounded by. They don't know, of fail to believe, that they were called, at one time, Campbellites. :tonofbricks:

Alexander Campbell and Raccoon Smith wrecked havoc on the Church right here in Central Ky early 1800s. This is where CoC has it's roots, sorry to say.

 

[salzer mtn]

Christ hung on the cross not a bucket of water.

 

[MB]

A problem here is that you all willy nilly with a broad brush make ‘sozo’ [saved] to always mean the acquisition of eternal life, i.e. the birth from above, regeneration. This is error. ‘Saved’ can nearly always be translated simply as ‘delivered’, ‘salvation’ as deliverance’, and this deliverance is nearly always intended in the temporal sense not the eternal.

Remember that Peter was the apostle to the circumcision and his audience was [Christian] Jews of ‘that generation’ on which the ‘wrath to come’ was to happen:

But when he saw many of the Pharisees and Sadducees coming to his baptism, he said unto them, Ye offspring of vipers, who warned you to flee from the wrath to come? Mt 3:7

He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that disbelieveth shall be condemned. Mk 16:16

40 And with many other words he testified, and exhorted them, saying, Save yourselves from this crooked generation.
41 They then that received his word were baptized: and there were added unto them in that day about three thousand souls. Acts 2

The only way for those Jews of 'that generation' to be delivered [saved] from the wrath to come and avoid bringing the curses of Lev 26/Dt 28 upon themselves and their progeny was to profess Christ as LORD, and water baptism was an integral part of that profession.

I'm not building a doctrine of Salvation by Baptism. I just mention the verse in Peter and your reaction is that I believe in Salvation by Baptism. However Peter isn't the only one who said this but now you show Mark 16:16 as well. The scriptures them selves say that a matter is settled by two or three witnesses. Are you now changing your mind about it? Mark did include it with belief. Calvinist do not believe there belief saves them as far as I can tell because some of them claim they were saved so they could believe.:smilewinkgrin:

 

[Yeshua1]

We have had a few from the CoC join the board and post in the Other Religions Forum, where I spend a great deal of my time.

When I was saved, it was through an interdenominational group that worked on the campuses of universities. They never stressed the importance of local churches or baptism. After salvation, and graduation I worked in a rural area where there was no opportunity to go to a local church of any kind. I wasn't baptized until two years after I was saved.

I put the question this CoC member: "If I had died within that two year period, would I have gone to heaven?" IOW, do you consider me saved?
He answered that he didn't consider me saved then, nor does he now.

They believe that baptism is an integral part of their salvation. Without baptism one cannot be saved. Furthermore, I wasn't saved because I wasn't baptized by a CoC pastor. The baptizer has to be the right person. Thus in their eyes, because I haven't been baptized by their cult I am still not saved.

Theirs is a religion of works, which cannot save. If one gets saved it is in spite of the doctrine taught, not because of it. Putting one's trust in baptism cannot save. Baptismal regeneration in the CoC is just as much heresy as it is in the RCC.

they are in same boat as United Pentacostalists"jesus Only", for BOTH affirm that unless you are water baptism, you CANNOT be really saved, as the baptism confirms/completes the salvation process!